Well said Brenda On 1/24/06, brendamanning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am not on anyones side & I am not intending to be inflammatory. > But I am a realist & inform my homebirthing clients that should they make > controversial choices ( & I am a big supporter of BAC & VBreech) they need > to be: "not intending to allocate blame if the outcome is unfavourable". > > It means NOT SUING the OB/MW if the outcome is poor because the client has > chosen to take responsibility for her own decision-making. > This doesn't make the client a "victim". She made informed choices, her > caregiver agreed to work with them & the outcome is then the clients > responsibility (barring out & out negligence). > > When we make important decisions we are accepting the responsibility of > educating ourselves about the benefits & risks of a procedure & then > accepting the outcome as this is the consequence of our actions. It's > unreasonable to blame-shift if you make a decision while fully informed & > then don't like the outcome. > I'm not absolving health professionals of their role which is to provide a > safe practice arena within their sphere of expertise. We are all accountable > for our own practice. But the ever increasing litigiousness of our society > is a large part of why womens choices are so reduced. > > I believe that compromise is the solution globally. Unfortunately there are > alot of professionals & consumers who won't/don't/can't discuss & 'give a > little to get alot'. Collaborative practice is where everyone ( health prof > & clients) work together for the benefit of the client. That's what we are > aiming for. > > With kind regards > Brenda Manning > www.themidwife.com.au > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike & Lindsay Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:49 AM > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? > > > >I like the point you make. People should be able to do it their way. > > And I see and hear midwives annoyance at manipulative behaviour by > > doctors. But I can also see it from a medical point of view. If it > > goes wrong the patients become "victims" and they and their lawyers > > come running looking for someone to blame. > > > > rgds mike > > > > On 1/23/06, brendamanning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Jo, > >> > >> I would absolutely agree with your first statement, heard it many times, > >> "got in & saved/rescued your baby, just in the nick of time" ! > >> I am such a hero! > >> > >> With the second part: whilst very supportive of BAC I think labouring > >> with a > >> uterus which has already dehisced & is subsequently heavily scarred is > >> really pushing the boundaries of safety. > >> However: as long as the mother is well informed ( & being well informed > >> means knowing the down side as well as the up side) about the risks & not > >> intending to allocate blame if the outcome is unfavourable ie a second UR > >> ( > >> hysterectomy etc, plus or minus a fetal death) then she can do what ever > >> she > >> chooses. > >> > >> I have seen in OT the uterus of a woman booked for a repeat EL LUSCS, not > >> in > >> labour, 38/40 with a dehisced area easily 5 cms in the old scar & no > >> apparent ill effects for mother or baby. Normal obs, normal CTG, normal > >> fetal mvmts. Absolutely no sign before OT that there was anything amiss. > >> Amazing. > >> She had been offered BAC & chose > >> LUSCS...............................what if ? > >> > >> With kind regards > >> Brenda Manning > >> www.themidwife.com.au > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Dean & Jo > >> To: [email protected] > >> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:15 PM > >> Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? > >> > >> not trying to be controversial (honest!) just wanting to think outside > >> norm...how many times have I heard the story of an ob saying to a woman > >> when > >> giving her the repeat cs (for a 'failed vbac attempt not linked to a > >> rupture) "oh the scar was so thin it could have ripped open at any > >> second...lucky I saved you from it". (well I am TRYING not sound too > >> facetious) > >> > >> I suppose like anything we must look at rationale for the first event. > >> IF a > >> rupture did occur you could conclude that the repair to the uterus would > >> be > >> quite extensive IF she managed to not lose the uterus- hence the risks > >> for > >> future rupture would increase. But a dehiscence has not been proven to > >> be a > >> serious concern according to the investigation I have done in the last > >> almost 9 years. There is speculation that a scar can slightly part with > >> no > >> harmful effects. > >> > >> Just asking questions....don't they just HATE informed consumers! ;o) > >> love Jo > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > >> Janet Fraser > >> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: *****SUSPECTED SPAM***** Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence > >> or > >> UR? > >> > >> You made all my points, Jo. > >> : ) > >> J > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Dean & Jo > >> To: [email protected] > >> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 PM > >> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR? > >> > >> I would have to look for the research (we all know how 'fair' research > >> can > >> be!) but the stated contra-indicators for vbac is previous rupture. Now > >> it > >> doesn't actually state if the chances of another rupture are higher than > >> a > >> normal scar or whether it is a case of "dam! Not going to let that happen > >> again!" attitude. You could argue I suppose that even a dehiscence that > >> required repair would be considered the same as a repeat cs....?? > >> Perhaps > >> no vbac after one rupture/dehiscence would be based on fear and/or > >> presumption. Similar to the situation where a woman loses a baby during > >> labour there is the assumption that she will want a cs next time.??? > >> > >> jo > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > >> Janet Fraser > >> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:37 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR? > >> > >> Hi all, > >> does anyone know of research on VB after UR? I was asked this: > >> > >> So if you've had a scar come apart to the point where the baby was on its > >> way out via the DIY sunroof, and the ob says he would have had to cut me > >> open to stitch it up even if I had pushed the baby out, would that make > >> VBA2C too risky? > >> > >> Thanks in advance, > >> J > >> > >> Joyous Birth > >> Home Birth Forum - a world first! > >> http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ > >> > >> Attending births is like growing roses. You have to marvel at the ones > >> that > >> just open up and bloom at the first kiss of the sun but you wouldn't > >> dream > >> of pulling open the petals of the tightly closed buds and forcing them to > >> blossom to your time line. > >> > >> ~Gloria Lemay~ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: > >> 1/20/2006 > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: > >> 1/20/2006 > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: > >> 1/20/2006 > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: > >> 1/20/2006 > >> > > > > > > -- > > My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz > > My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers > > > > "Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is > > as safe as life gets." Unknown > > -- > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > -- > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. >
-- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers "Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as life gets." Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
