*Silke says : "Perhaps sbd want's to start collecting these experiences ( EDUCATION AS COMMONING ) on the P2P website?"*
Sounds good. I'm in. Also, personally, I would DIFFERENTIATE between *"learning as commons"* , and "education" as commons... ;) I imagine there are already all kinds of content and categories related to these topics - so I guess it can help to have a clear vision of what it is we may be expressing. On this thread, imho, no general consensus - just overlaps in a diversity of approaches. As I understand it, some focusing on reproducing the university , but in a cooperative structure ( with some social media blend ), and focused on the teachers, who would become the owners of the structure ? An alternative that seems to be more in the direction you seem to suggest Silke, though I feel you may be using a midway approach, is one not only that is learner centered, but learner controlled. Basing ourselves on a Contribution Economy approach, See ladder of participation : http://p2pfoundation.net/Ladder_of_Participation As for editing the p2pfoundation wiki, I try not to mess too much with the p2pfoundation site, sometimes just adding or correcting, rather sending info to others ( often Michel ) to add to it. If others create the structure / how it is categorized, or pages, I can add links where it seems appropriate. [image: File:Ladder-example.png] On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Silke Helfrich <[email protected]>wrote: > Dear all, > just a short note: > > Once the new university-like "institution" I was talking about is running > ("classes" start by early January 2014, and I hope official recognition is > underway) I'll post some more information via this list. > > There is a huge need to show that also our educational systems can be > remodeled as commons; and the good thing is, this is nothing new at all, we > can learn from practices worldwide. > > May be at some point we should think about putting all this experience > together and discussing it in depth! > For me -for instance - the zapatistas approach is extremely inspiring (but > different from what we also need to do here in Germany); or the campesino a > campesino programms all over the world - so how to get this into higher > education in countries like mine? > Perhaps sbd want's to start collecting these experiences (EDUCATION AS > COMMONING) on the P2P website? > > Very best > Silke > > > Am 18.12.2013 06:54, schrieb [email protected]: > >> Hi >> >> I just get home from big student protests after the new austrian >> government abrogated the 'ministry of science and research". It's now >> part of the 'ministry for economy'. >> >> I am also quite interested in the free university projects going on. My >> overall interest is in co-operative learning not only within the >> academic sphere but outside of the university, also >> academic-and-non-academic learning together. >> >> Since we are trying out a kind of 'free and open university' project in >> Graz I am facing many questions. >> There're concerning: >> * learning from (urban) commons projects. >> * How can we use the city as resource? How can we participate in urban >> development to create a city for our needs? (Since german commons >> summerschool with silke I am thinking of how to 'activate' people in >> participating in urban development. This can also be seen as a kind of >> strategy against enclosure of urban commons) >> * the integration of people of different social groups (e.g. academic >> and non-academic, from different cultures/countries) and of different >> age for learning practices, also research and working on solutions in >> one's everyday life. >> >> Our project in Graz is (right now) in the very beginning and we are >> still searching for people who have knowledge and experience about >> education. So far we are trying out different things: skill sharing, >> using online courses, reading circles and practical stuff. Our first >> trial is concerning gardening. Ecology and biology is too theoretical, >> so we wanna use the community gardens in Graz. We are trying to include >> very different groups and people of different age (starting with >> kindergarden, also people in retirement). >> >> Best >> David >> >> Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Interesting Silke. >> >> Feels already closer to a "Cooperative of Learners" :) >> >> Is it a face to face real world living space you imagine ? >> >> I am interested in projects that could happen in Germany. >> >> How big would you imagine to start off ? >> >> Can it build on something existing ? >> Some existing faculties ? Possibly a continuation of a program, to >> start with ? >> If so, which ones would be interested , as to help learned to bring >> research and projects further into life, beyond conventional Phd's ? >> And feeding a commons ? >> >> Could it be in collaboration with existing "Open Universities", or >> platforms such as Gaia University ? http://www.gaiauniversity.org/ >> >> Somehow, what you suggest, with support to the learners / students >> costs, reminds me also of the Steiner backed Youth Initiative >> Program http://yip.se/ >> ( if not already in touch, I ll gladly support with networking ) >> >> I somehow imagine it like small co-living / co-learning spaces, >> which could be networked within one same area. >> >> I also remember vaguely ( do not remember the references ) >> some project in Berlin which focused on networking various places ( >> including work spaces ? ) open to sharing learning ? >> >> /// >> >> Is there any convergence space online where it is already possible >> to stay updated in relation to the vision you express ? >> If not in the short term, for whenever there is a more specific >> definition of such vision ? >> >> Just stumbled on this mail and links , which are likely common >> knowledge to most people on this list ? : >> >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/op-n-m/NaFQsXmBU4k >> >> Note : or instead of an opposition between a limited capitalist >> market Vs commons, >> are we rather talking about *non-monopolistic commons based markets *? >> >> *Markets in the form of available information with a variety of >> criteria* - not only based on price in terms of monopolist tokens ? >> >> >> http://p2pfoundation.net/Logic_of_the_Market_versus_ >> the_Logic_of_the_Commons >> >> http://commonsblog.wordpress.com/2011/01/29/the-commons- >> year-one-of-the-global-commons-movement/ >> >> also reminds me of Festivalism >> http://p2pfoundation.net/Festivalism >> http://business.nmsu.edu/~dboje/papers/Festivalism_at_Work.html >> >> also see Kevin Carson's : >> http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/ >> contents/ >> >> >> The Table >> >> >> The Logic of the Market versus the Logic of the Commons >> >> *Market* *Commons* >> *Focus* >> >> What can I sell?Exchange value >> >> >> >> What do we need?Use value >> >> *Core beliefs* Scarcity Plenty >> Homo oeconomicus Homo cooperans >> It's about resources (allocation)/./ It's about us. >> *Governance* Market-State Polycentric / Peer-to-Peer >> Governance >> >> Decision making hierarchical horizontal >> Command (Power, Law, Violence) Consensus, Free Cooperation, >> self-organization >> *Social relationships* Centralization of power (monopoly) >> >> >> Decentralization of power(autonomy) >> >> Property Possession >> Access to rival resources Limited by boundaries & rules defined by >> owner Limited by boundaries & rules defined by usergroups >> Access to nonrival resources Made scarce (to ensure >> profitability) >> Open access (to ensure social equity) >> Use rights Granted by owner Co-decided by user groups >> *Dominant strategy* Out-compete Out-cooperate >> *Results* >> >> For the resources >> >> ErosionEnclosure >> >> >> >> Conservation Reproduction & Multiplication >> >> For the people Exlusion & Participation Inclusion & >> Emancipation >> >> * Source: The Commons: Year One of the Global Commons Movement by >> >> Silke Helfrich (29. Januar 2011) >> <http://commonsblog.wordpress.com/2011/01/29/the-commons- >> year-one-of-the-global-commons-movement/> >> >> >> http://business.nmsu.edu/~dboje/papers/Festivalism_at_Work.html >> >> ** >> >> *Table One: Spectacle and Festival* >> >> *Spectacle* >> >> ** >> >> *Festival* >> >> 1. Work >> 2. Work or play time >> 3. Imposed patterns of behavior >> 4. Dead time >> 5. Religions of consumption >> 6. Pseudo desires >> 7. Pseudo needs >> 8. Loss of Self >> 9. Colonized spaces >> 10. Spectator >> 11. Functionary >> 12. Survival of the Fittest/Richest >> >> >> >> 1. Play >> 2. Work and play >> 3. Freely constructed behavior >> 4. Live time >> 5. Self >> 6. Transparent desires >> 7. Transparent needs >> 8. Self-Management >> 9. Free spaces >> 10. Participant/Co-designer >> 11. Self-Managed >> 12. Coevolution and Co-survival >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Business_Models >> >> http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Economics#Towards_an_ >> Ethical_Economy: >> >> >> Towards an Ethical Economy >> <http://p2pfoundation.net/Ethical_Economy>: >> >> * *The Ethical Economy <http://p2pfoundation.net/Ethical_Economy>. >> >> Rebuilding Value After the Crisis. By Adam Arvidsson >> <http://p2pfoundation.net/Adam_Arvidsson> and Nicolai Peitersen. >> Columbia University Press, 2013* >> >> 1. Reciprocity. An Economics of Social Relations >> <http://p2pfoundation.net/Economics_of_Social_Relations>. >> Serge-Christophe Kolm. Cambridge University Press, 2008*[24] >> <http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item1174852/? >> site_locale=en_GB>* >> 2. Macrojustice. The Political Economy of Fairness >> <http://p2pfoundation.net/Political_Economy_of_Fairness>. By >> >> Serge-Christophe Kolm. Cambridge University Press, 2005 [25] >> <http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item1171540/? >> site_locale=en_GB> >> 3. Herman Daly. For the Common Good: Redirecting the Economy toward >> >> Community, the Environment, and a Sustainable Future >> <http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?link_code=ur2&; >> tag=p2pfoundation-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&location= >> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2F0807047058% >> 2Fref%3Dpd_sim_b_2%3F%255Fencoding%3DUTF8%26v%3Dglance%26n%3D283155>. >> Beacon Press, 1994 >> 4. Natural Capitalism >> <http://p2pfoundation.net/Natural_Capitalism>: Creating the Next >> >> Industrial Revolution – Paul Hawken >> >> >> On Monetary Economics and Transformation: >> >> 1. *The Future of Money <http://p2pfoundation.net/Future_of_Money>. >> >> Creating New Wealth, Work, and a Wiser World. Bernard Lietaer >> <http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Economics?title= >> Bernard_Lietaer&action=edit&redlink=1>. >> Random House* free pdf >> <http://www.techrules.com/clients/aeatonline/docs/ >> Bernard%20Lietaer%20-%20The%20future%20of%20money.pdf> >> 2. Local Money <http://p2pfoundation.net/Local_Money>: How To Make >> >> It Happen In Your Community – Peter North >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Silke Helfrich >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Dear John >> >> I very much agree with you and am therefor happy to participate >> in a new attempt to open a University in Germany which is based >> on exactly the ideas you mention: >> >> Students won't only pay (hopefully money the get as a gift from >> somewhere/ that is what we try to organize - there has to be >> gift-money in education), they also will receive the money, that >> is they will - as a students organization - manage the fees by >> themselves which to some extend will be the most important >> infrastructure of the University. (I say "to some extend" >> because there are still some rules to fit into the current >> system to get the title of a University) . >> >> The concept is so consequent to say: "and if the students don't >> need the University anymore, the University should close". As >> you said: education is relational. >> >> Very best >> Silke >> >> >> Am 16.12.2013 15:22, schrieb John: >> >> Dear Folks, >> >> There is nothing inherently wrong with paying someone for a >> service they >> provide to you. Indeed, one of the absurdities of the present >> educational set up is precisely that students have so little >> say in the >> educational services they pay for. There was a time when some >> universities were operated as student-run educational >> co-operatives in >> which students subjected the professors that they were going >> to hire to >> scrupulous cross examination before approving their positions >> as >> educational service providers to the student body. This was >> the case at >> the University of Bologna until quite recently. >> >> So, one angle of approach is for students to have far more >> control over >> the selection of faculty, over the design and evaluation of >> courses, and >> of the running of the university itself – in partnership >> with the >> teachers themselves and other community stakeholders. >> >> Education is a classic /relational good/, that is, a good >> that is >> >> co-produced by the provider and the recipient of the service >> /together/. Education doesn't happen unless /both/ parties >> are fully >> >> engaged in the exchange of knowledge relations, and it is >> optimally >> produced when the educational relationship is one of >> reciprocity and >> equality. This is the reason why authentic education is not >> a commodity >> – it is an exchange of human relations and revolves around >> the question >> of the nature of knowledge production. >> >> The creation of equality, of reciprocal educational >> relationships, and >> the provision of control rights to students is the heart of >> how >> educational institutions need to be reformed. Unless this >> happens, >> everything else is a sideshow and a distraction. >> >> John >> >> On 13-12-16 4:49 AM, Joss Winn wrote: >> >> On 16/12/2013 09:13, "mp"<[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> On 15/12/13 19:03,[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> I certainly don't want to criticise the idea of >> a cooperative >> university and all the work you are doing at the >> SSC. However the >> fundamental distinction between students and >> teachers is that the >> former have to pay and the latter get paid. >> >> Is that what they call capitalism? Social relations >> revolving around a >> commodity form, in this case "education" as the >> commodity? Giving >> structure to a hierarchy, where there are experts >> (controlling the means >> of (knowledge) production) and followers (consuming >> the produced >> knowledge commodities, if they can afford it)? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > commoning Mailingliste > JPBerlin - Politischer Provider > [email protected] > https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning >
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