ok, Gordon, we are going to try to avoid the understandable hostility here f, and I realize you are still seething for what happened to you. I have suggested to Bernardo to apologize for the falsehoods he spread , but let's leave it at that here and try to have a civilized debate based on the facts. Bernardo is adult enough to face his conscience. I have apologized many times to you so don't need to redo it here I hope <g>.
For your info, Bernardo was co-responsible for communication and did an excellent job on that front. He is spanish but lives in Brazil and well-known for his skills in guerilla communication. On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Gordon Cook <[email protected]> wrote: > Here is the requested url michel > > While Michel is preparing his report, anyone wishing to read mine may hit > this URL > > http://www.cookreport.com/pdfs/July-augCRecuadorfinal.pdf > > hidden i.e. not advertised on my web site. > > I am curious as to where Bernardo came from? His was the outside media > company hired by Daniel? You will see in the about my evidence of his > changing the rules at the last hour for the summit thunderclap. Quite > funny. > > > > On Jul 5, 2014, at 10:53 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I'm really sorry Bernardo, but your threat has been public and can be > verified; second, if you publicly and privately threaten me, I don't think > you have any moral authority to criticise that I make these threats public. > I will send the URL of your facebook threat here a bit later. You will note > that this facebook account with a few thousand followers, and with several > dozen exclusively positive evaluations of my relatively positive evaluation > of the flok process, none of them even 'liked' the threat. It was > absolutely out of place, while a political discussion of flok is entirely > in place. So here is the warning: please respond to political analysis by > counter-analysis. But if you respond to analysis by threats and character > assasination, you will find me on your way. > > To deny that you did it won't work, and neither will be the argument that > it was all meant of a joke. I know you are following a precedent. Somebody > we both know accused Gordon Cook, of 1) not existing 2) being a front of > Robert Steele 3) being a CIA agent 4) being an adolescent ranter 4) being a > neocon. That person, who spent several hours online searching for proof, > spread these accusations, and you gave credence to it by also spreading it. > When exposed as lies, can you then simple say, after trying to repeatedly > destroy a person's reputation. > > And you still continue, you are shameless. Gordon Cook is the author of > absolutely stellar reports on p2p infrastructures, which can be verified > and read at the Gordon Cook report. His policy paper, which is excellent > and breaks a lot of new ground, is also available online. I copy Gordon so > he can provide the URL's. > > We have to reiterate the case of what happened to Gordon Cook as it was > exemplary. Like many other authors, Gordon Cook was promited $4,000 for a > paper. This promise was then unilaterally changed to $3,500 on condition > that he would attend the summit. Since Gordon had undergone a absolutely > invasive and painful spinal operation, and needed a series of eye > interventions to boot. I was physically present twice when the promise was > made to him to facilitate the trip through a business class trip. Not once, > but twice. That promise was then also broken. And no, the maximum was not > done to make it possible. As has been already admitted, it was a conscious > and political decision not to do it, not a force majeure. > > Now, f..ups are always possible. But you know it is a pattern. Every > person who was asked to leave the project has been systematically maligned. > I'll review the list again, BH, an excellent journalist and communicator, > was accused of being on the payroll of US intelligence for publishing a > critical article; AD, was being branded as 'a spy of Senescyt' and was > threatened with physical intimidation; a research team member was > threatened with dismissal for expressing critique on the mailing list. In > recent days, you have been publicly trashing both the work of the research > team and the communication team. It's a paranoid style of politics and > character assasination that has no place in an open culture. If you can't > avoid trashing people, have the wisdom to do it indoors, but don't publish > and spread unfounded and unproven accusations via the network. > > I want to avoid speaking about this mess, it's not very interesting, > unless as a generic lesson for the future: don't let hierarchies dominate > participatory projects. > > Bernardo, I invite to challenge my political conclusions from now on, and > I will avoid publishing the facts of my experience. You have failed to > intimidate me in my right to politically evaluate flok, move on. > > Take a hint from Daniel's approach in this controversy. > > Michel > > > > > On Sat, Jul 5, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Bernardo Gutiérrez < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello you all >> >> I think there are several misunderstandings and some unfair accusation. >> Try to be polity and to explain the problems: >> >> In the last few days, I have been harassed and threatened by Bernardo >>> Gutierrez, who tried to suppress the publication of an evalution of the >>> FLOK process, which you can find here: >>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/a-provisional-informal-assessment-of-the-flok-transition-process-in-ecaudor/2014/07/01 >>> >>> >> It is complitily false. Never tried .In fact, it is the first time that I >> know that you published in the blog. Our discussion started when I told you >> that it was not propor to share in FACEBOOK (it is quite clear in all of >> our mails), now, those critics to FLOK process, right now. Having had >> several problems, It is an important moment to know what it is going to >> happen. May it does not help. I valu your version, but desagree in several >> points. Correa (the president) invited the guest of the FLOK to the Cambio >> de Guardia. He spoke about FLOK in Sabatina. We were working with high >> level politicians, as Cancilleria (minister Patiño), Senplades and even >> people from presidency. So, I think it was not such an unknow project. In >> fact, it became, during and after the Summit a quite important project for >> the Whole Ecuatorian Goverment >> >> >>> In this text, I simply make a political evalution of my 6 months in >>> Ecuador, as I see it, as I believe was both my right (of free speech), and >>> a duty to the p2p community, who has been asking for it. It is in my view a >>> moderate and considered political evaluation, though of course, as my >>> opinion, open to critique and counter-argumentation. >>> >> >> I think it is good, Michel, And you are an importante person in the >> process. >> >> >>> >>> While I would have accepted a conversation asking me to postpone it, in >>> order to safeguard some potential backroom deal in Ecuador, instead BG >>> thought it would be useful to publicly threaten the publication of my >>> private emails, thinking this would frighten me. It doesn't, as I don't >>> believe I write anything in private that can't see the light of the day. >>> But private email involves other persons and I find it very ethically >>> objectionable that he would use this as a threat. >>> >> >> Another big misanderstanding. I think it horrible to publish any private >> conversation. In fact, I am super critic with private conversation going >> public. I was joking and exagerating the fact that Gordon Cook violated >> privacy and made a report with that. Publishing in networks some things is >> not good. So, If you understand that, I am sorry. We have more people in >> that conversation, that probably did not undestand that. >> >> >>> >>> This is not the first time, a few months ago, Bernardo tried to suppress >>> any balanced treatment of Fora do Eixo ( >>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Fora_do_Eixo) and even objected to the mention >>> of chilean groups that were somehow one day, connected with FdO. BG's >>> totally unfounded accusation then was that "I defended FdO because I was >>> getting a free PhD from Ivana Bentes". >>> >> >> That is a private mail. PRIVATE CONVERSATION, Michel. But, well, I think >> that is my personal opinion, yes. I don´t need to hide it. >> >> >>> It gave me a first insight into his unfair mindset. To be clear, I was >>> not then nor am I now, neither defending nor attacking FdO, but the p2p-f >>> is conceived as a pluralistic network to show different perspectives on an >>> issue, helping people make their own decisions. We don't want to be >>> factional and choose one side or another within the broad p2p community. I >>> found it strange then that Bernardo was exerting pressure to have only one >>> side of the story seen as legitimate, and refused an open debate on the >>> merits of the critique. I could only be radically against FdO, no nuance >>> was permitted. >>> >> >> >> That is not true. I asked you how did you make the list of p2p projects >> of the year. Almost all the node sof Brazil P2P branch were disgusted with >> that, none was consulted. . At the end, we knew it was more your list than >> P2p List. I am specially critic with FdO, but it is on you the aproach >> >>> >>> The second incident came with the aftermath of the FLOK. In the above >>> evaluation, I avoid studiously to mention or critique internal matters, >>> believing that it would only make matters worse. But I have had to suffer >>> there the systematic unfounded accusations against my friends and >>> associates: BG has simply reiterated and continue to spread unfounded >>> accusations against excellent people I had the opportunity to work with : >>> BT,, AD, GC, the research team , the communication team ... >>> >> >> You are again publishing private conversations. With Gordon Cook we >> argued in the list, that is true. Not the rest. So I will deny that, >> because is quite far from reality. You also make big critics to many people >> (some of this list) in our conversations But I think it is not proper to >> divulgate here, Michel. Private conversation (me and you ) is private. >> >> >> >>> What is worse, even when I sent information to BG advising him not to >>> re-iterate these accusations based on facts that I provided to him, he >>> would continue spreading them, totally ignoring the counter-factuals I had >>> sent him. For example, BG has coninued to spread disinfo about Gordon Cook >>> that he is a neocon, opposed to copyleft, and other falsehoods, even after >>> receiving documentation to the contrary. >>> >> >> I feel sorry, Michel. But Gordon Cook has been publishing with Copy >> Right ever. He has a lot of problems, health, as well. The problem began >> when he told FLOk that he could only travel in business, because of his >> health problems. The management team tryed, but could no be that. The >> quality of the drafts sent was not good. Neither shape of paper neither >> quality. You did a nice job editing the second one amd transforming it into >> a goog paper. But for many reason, it was impossible to get the business >> ticket. And he started a war. The burocracy was terrible and he could not >> be paid (just coming to Ecuador). Believe that has nothing to do with me. >> After the dirty war he began (violating privacy and laws), he deserve to >> not be paid, in my opinion. >> >> >> >> "Bernardo's attempt to suppress an independent evaluation is a proof of >> the latter. How would a healthy p2p process be endangered by an open >> discussion? The truth is that the flok attempted to create a mythology of >> success, and of political and social support that wasn't there, and that >> Bernardo's highly stage-managed twitter storms were part of that effort. " >> >> I am not trying to suppress anything, Michel! I just told you that it was >> not propor to publish now in Facebook!!! in the moment of the reshaping of >> the project. I feel really sorry of your accusation about communication >> strategy. A Twitter Storm is a 1% of what we did. We created a strong >> participatory process, wiht personal meetings, seminars, speeches. We did >> wordk shop in 24 cities, with 500 local leaders (who were in the summit). >> we published more than 100 post un few months, we did many hang outs (many >> with researchers), p2pbeer. We worked with Cancilleria (international >> affair minister), with their Ecuela Revolución, people from 40 countries. >> We made meeting in squatters (with Restakis, researcher), we made cultural >> collaborative mappings, Mumble meetings etc etc. We presented in MAdrid, in >> the arab-latin american summit, in Media Lab Prado. All of that is >> communication. Communication is conection, and that is what happened. A >> twitter storm never work if there is no network. And we got it, with a lot >> of difficulties. At the begining it was a top down project. It became more >> organic. So, It is not a twitter storm, Michel. >> >> >> "The very reason that BG is attempting to suppress an evualuation of the >> FLOK, is that it endangered potential backroom deals. My thesis is: if they >> are endangered by an open discussion, what value do these deals ultimately >> have? >> I'm preparing an evaluative essay on "Hacker Bolchevism, the paranoid >> style of politics in p2p' to critique the non-prefigurative politics that >> were so characteristic of the FLOK internal process" >> >> >> Your critics are necessary. In fact, I respect them. But I think that you >> do them in the wrong places (Facebook, this list, for example). The last >> Facebook schandal, some months ago, when they ought some money, was proper >> and worked. Not this one. >> >> >> "Stalinistic tactics have no place in an open p2p culture". >> >> It is commom sense, Michel. this mail of you, for examplo, is out of >> place in this moment >> >> "I do not intend to pollute the p2p lists with these personal antagonisms >> (even as they reveal antagonistic value systems and political and >> metholodgical approaches). I will at most respond once to the >> counter-accusations that will undoubtedly follow this, but I can't tolerate >> public and private intimidation when I am no longer part of the flok team". >> >> Sorry, but I think this is pollution. No one accusated you in any list. I >> never would do it. >> >> >> It is me who think you should reconsider your position. We all have >> (researchers, management team, communication team) done an interesting and >> innovative worlk, begining from you and ending with the secretary. It would >> be a pitty to espoil that >> >> Best >> Bernardo >> >> >> >> >> -- >> *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no >> record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* >> >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> >> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> >> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki: http://p2pfoundation.net/Spanish_P2P_WikiSprint >>> Lista https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-lang-es >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.futuramedia.net >> www.codigo-abierto.cc >> @bernardosampa (twitter) / @futura_media >> São Paulo +55 11 43044380 (fijo) +55 11 84881620 (celular) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki: http://p2pfoundation.net/Spanish_P2P_WikiSprint >> Lista https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-lang-es >> >> > > > -- > *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no > record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > > > -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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