ok, if you resend me the text you want to be clarified (you can do it privately), I'll see what I can do,
Michel On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:14 AM, peter waterman <[email protected] > wrote: > Michel: > > Thanx for posting this. I would not, however, want to post it further (or > even see it further posted) since it would require considerable inside > knowledge to make sense of it. I myself cannot do so, tho I do have some > background knowledge of Ecuador and a sceptical posture towards the '21st > century socialist', or whatever, process occurring there. > > So, I am wondering whether you would not be able to 'translate and > improve'* your own account. That would mean making the information > available to the wider community - even if this is taken only to be the > NetLab and p2p lists. > > Best, > > P > > *this is the phrase on a poster advertising a performance in Yiddish of > Shakespeare's 'Hamlet', in an isolated Jewish community of 19thC Poland. It > was signed by the translator, Shmuel Cohen. > > > On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Örsan Şenalp <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Michel, many thanks for this detailed response. >> >> Actually my intention was posting on the networked labour list only >> the personal or official reports coming from or about the FLOK project >> which you led it's research part and concluded last month in Ecuador. >> >> As for the request you replied below, actually I meant to address the >> impotence of adopting open or participatory budgeting practise in >> general. Otherwise did not mean to question anybodies' integrity or >> so. I believe, as you do, for building p2p or distributed ethical >> economies figuratively, and for especially these kind of projects this >> is an essential point. >> >> Besides, in my opinion, it may be useful for those who are on the >> networked labour list so not very much aware of the exchanges going on >> about the project process so on; so who were not able to read the >> whole email in which I made the request from you and others. If you >> agree and find it useful or necessary to give a brief background >> please feel free. So it is up to you. >> >> Thanks again, >> Orsan >> >> >> On 7 July 2014 06:43, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Orsan, you write: >> > >> > <To avoid any negative impact for all the sides, I would humbly suggest, >> > especially in terms of financial aspects, providing full transparency >> (Flok, >> > P2P-F, Cook Consultancy, Ecuadorean ministries so on). And without >> > practicing a sort of participatory budgeting, IMHO, there will always be >> > shadows of doubts and questions hanging on these kinds of >> > state-capital-funded projects.> >> > >> > Orsan, the budget was highly secretive and tightly controlled by the >> flok >> > mgt team; in fact, AD was removed (though they are claiming he removed >> > himself, so I'm not sure), largely because he tried to get a regular and >> > open budget done controlled by the institution. It was the key area of >> > contention and why he has been called a spy. >> > >> > Here is my guesswork: >> > >> > * the project was tri-funded by the Min of Knowledge, the Senescyt >> > innovation secretariat and the IAEN institution >> > >> > * the entire process with wages may have reached $400k , with an >> additional >> > $300k plus for the summit >> > >> > The wage issue was highly contentious, from before I reached the >> project. >> > The rector wanted to pay intl' level wages to foreign researchers, and >> this >> > was not taken well by the locals. On the other hand, the institution >> payed >> > some people very well who never showed up, and trying to get rid of >> them is >> > one of the causes that caused him the loss of his job. The ratio of >> staff to >> > students is incredibly skewed at the IAEN but I can't remember the >> ratio, >> > but much more staff than students. >> > >> > My understanding is that most of the research team got $4k and I got >> $5.x as >> > 'director'. There is no doubt that this is well paid, but it is still >> less >> > for a month than a private consulting gets for a day. So, if the FLOK >> is a >> > genuine transition project, that was not outside of decency. There is a >> lot >> > of discussion about the other salaries, which are shrouded in secrecy. >> One >> > of the most often expressed critiques directed at me and the research >> team: >> > how can you guys make so much noise when you are paid so well, 'aren't >> you >> > ashamed'; on the other hand, 'flok mgt works tirelessly for nearly >> nothing'. >> > This is the mythology, used again and again, but I'm not sure it is the >> > truth; from very good accounting sources, I was informed that they >> earned >> > four times their claims, but I can't prove this. But as I've learned >> not to >> > trust anything said coming from the flok mgt, I tend to give credence >> to my >> > source. >> > >> > As for me, yes, I was well paid, after living under the minimum wage >> for >> > seven years. We had to pay our own tickets, rent and rent guarantees, >> all >> > internal job-related travels, and because of the length of the >> engagement, I >> > had to bring my family for two months (this was a stated condition of my >> > employment, even if I had to finance it myself). Because of the >> structurally >> > late payments, I had to pay 40% more for these tickets, and on average, >> > since we all had to take loans, 20% interest fees. So, just to say, >> despite >> > appearances, none of us got rich from this, and we worked tirelessly, in >> > very tough circumstances, 12 to 14 hours a day, including many weekend >> days. >> > So, we are certainly not victims, privileged for sure, but not getting >> rich >> > on this assignment either. Neither of us asked for anything, we >> accepted an >> > invitation with its conditions, so I think the whole wage controversy is >> > really a side issue. >> > >> > I'm not suggesting any budget malfeasance, the opacity of the budget was >> > exclusively an issue of political control. You should also take into >> account >> > that due to the structural non-payment, the flok mgt had to make >> superhuman >> > efforts for the project to merely survive. Two full-time staff were >> engaged >> > just to speed up our payments (they achieved a 6 week average delay due >> to >> > superhuman efforfts): I was told, but can't verify this, that 26 >> signatures >> > were needed each month for each wage, a sign of terrible bureaucracy. >> (while >> > I critique the hierarchical aspects of the mgt process we should not >> forget >> > the extreme structural stress they were facing day in day out). >> > >> > Also, apart from the real work, we were forced to produce partly >> fictitious >> > 'products', taking 2-3 working days to produce, as proof of our work. >> These >> > had to be delivered 10 days before the end of each month, hence having >> a 10 >> > day 'future narrative' included. You have no idea of the level of >> > dysfunctional bureaucracy that was prevalent. This is not exclusively a >> flok >> > and IAEN problem, as the young and mosty precarious Prometheo >> researchers >> > also are routinely not paid for the first four months of their work. >> Unless >> > you have strong reserves to withstand such delays, I would not >> recommend any >> > foreigner to work as a scholar in Ecuador for the moment. But if you >> have >> > reserves and go for the experience and engagement with local people, >> it's >> > worthwhile, it's a spectacular place. The structural situation in >> Ecuador is >> > that most of the education funding goes to Yachai, a rather terrible >> > neoliberal experiment in a green desert, signing secret deals with >> > Microsoft, etc .. There is really nothing there, and won't be, for a >> very >> > long time. While the existing universities are being underfunded, this >> > artificial place, which will be structurally incapable of atracting the >> > creative class (even richard florida thinks it's a terrible idea), is >> > getting all the attention and funding. It's a little bit like the >> anti-FLOK >> > project, though funded by the same Ministry, one of the many >> contradictions >> > of the project and the political situation in Ecuador. Just as it was >> > impossible to find a single civic mvt with a positive view of the >> government >> > (at least amongst the 70 we spoke with); it was equally impossible to >> find a >> > single university administrator or scholar that supported the current >> > education policy. It's part of the divorce between the intellectual >> class >> > and the government that I discussed earlier, >> > >> > Michel >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no >> record >> > of previous communication, proposals, etc .. >> > >> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> > >> > Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> > >> > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > NetworkedLabour mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> NetworkedLabour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> > > > > -- > > 1. *EBook, November 2012: Recovering Internationalism > <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/>. [A > compilation of papers from the new millenium. Now free in two download > formats] <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/> > <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/>* > 2. > *EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World Social Forum: Critical > Explorations http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/ > <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/> * > 3. *Interface Journal Special (co-editor), November 2012: For the > Global Emancipation of Labour <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/>* > 4. *Blog: http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman. > <http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.> * > 5. *Interface Journal Special (Co-Editor) Social Movement > Internationalisms. See Call for Papers <http://www.interfacejournal.net/>, > (Deadline: May 1, 2014). * > 6. > *Needed: a Global Labour Charter Movement (2005-Now!) > > <http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf>* > 7. *Under, Against, Beyond: Labour and Social Movements Confront a > Globalised, Informatised Capitalism > <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/>(2011) Almost 1,000 > pages of Working Papers, free, from the 1980's-90's.* > 8. *Google Scholar Citation Index:* > *http://scholar.google.com.pe/citations?user=e0e6Qa4AAAAJ > <http://scholar.google.com.pe/citations?user=e0e6Qa4AAAAJ> * > > > - > > > _______________________________________________ > NetworkedLabour mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour > > -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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