Hi Michel, thanks for the reply! I tried to reply back and clarify what I meant, in between lines..
"I don't disagree with your characterisation of the rifkin/stiglitz positioning, but I have perhaps a different view on 'class' or social alliances," Fair enough! "certainly in the west, there is a clear process of the dwindling of the industrial working class (between 17 and 23% of the European working population); a clear de-proletarisation (both through access to means of production, and through non-salaried precarisation) but the growth of a networked knowledge-based working class ...but this class is multi-layered and very flexible in its social conditions: it can be salaried one day, freelancing the other, in start-up mode, etc .. a substantial minority of this 'class' is both allied to commons producing communities and entrepreneurial .." Though, reading your answer above and below, I realised that that was not clear what I meant. Actually, as far as I am aware of, you or those writers-thinkers or practitioners who organically tied to or associated with P2P– Commons-Transition ideas, who are helping to expand these debates publicly, are yet to deliver full analysis of the class enemies of the commons. As Sun Tzu once said, it is mortally important to know the enemy so well so that you can really see who is a friend. So in my opinion knowing the enemy problem is kind of prerequisite, and if I do not make a mistake it is not yet answered or widely debated yet amongst the lists or blogs related to these discussions. So it is about the nature or contradictions shaping the Class War of which Warren Buffet, the second richest capitalist who occupies the Wall Street, has been talking about. Or why he was talking about, addressing to who after the crisis he was part of, and as if who was not one of the front line warriors! So what I was referring the intra-capitalist or ruling class struggle and alliances / historic blocs (within the West, the rest, and transnationally) being formed by the ruling classes. "so to be clear: if traditional labour is dwindling, the whole classic debate about class alliances led by the working class become very problematic .. and: if the precarious knowledge labour class is facing changeable social conditions which include enterpreneurialism, then a hostility to it is equally problematic so my approach is to look for a broad coalition, not for a violent social transformation, but for the creation of commons-friendly state and private structures, that allow for a deep autonomisation of civil society and ethical entrepreneurship the coalition I propose entails: the precarious knowledge workers, and their digital culture political expressions (pirates, platform parties, digital commons orientation); what remains of the govt'al and industrial working class (the new transformative left parties like syriza, podemos, i..e. industrial commons); the greens (older knowledge working class, natural commons orientation), and the progressive enterpreneurial forces (alternative)." I stated the above, because I sincerely believe that without having an, as clear as possible, analysis on the configuration (but also strategy, strength, and weakness of) struggling ruling classes –at least one comparable to one you just give about the labour or partly other ‘ruled’ classes and [collaborative P2P] alliances amongst them you identified below- remains mainly ideational, meaning political-analytic, if not arbitrary. "I do not call for a class alliance with elite forces (as hardt and negri suggested we do), nor with radical right forces who are also against big government and big banks (the nader approach), but I do call for an alliance with those that want to reform the market dynamics. In this sense, I don't see rifkin/stieglitz with a vision of a half empty glass, but as half-full, as individuals who, despite their elite affiliations, represent steps in the right direction. We are not talking here about alliances with right wing parties, we are talking about a critical but positive interpretation of what their emergence means. "Here, is the thin line. An alignment can be on the discourse level, organically and networked. As alignment occurs by including key personal ties between and via organic intellectuals and institutions –those who are trying to manage a new historic blocs and save the entirety of the system. The increasingly efficient form networked- hierarchical alliances [working like marketing chains, lower layers earns lower bonuses]. So in my opinion all these three aspects needs to be analysed well, to evaluate the intra-, inter-, or cross-class alliances. Here are some good articles and books, which I can share: http://netglobalcapitalism.wordpress.com/articles/ http://web.uvic.ca/~wcarroll/research.htm http://jebsprague.blogspot.nl/ In relation to workers and unions role in relation to capital today I liked this analysis of Bill Fletcher, since it is close to how I see it: https://usilive.org/iss14-capitalism-anti-capitalism-and-the-trade-union-movement/ "when you mention kautsky and lenin ... do you know that kautsky and the SD members voted against the war, but they were over-ruled by the trade union faction of their party" I would vote for peace, whenever and whatever it takes, or may be would not vote at all.. but do something hard for peace.. have to read about the context of the above event. "so I suggest a third position, that of rosa luxemburg, who strongly warned lenin against relying on only one governance form, that of the soviets, and suggested keeping the parliament and representative institutions as a counterweight .. lenin ended up outlawing all political forces but his own, preparing the emergence of Stalinism .. was he really right ?" Here, since Lenin had the feeling that one has to attack fiercely who ever oppose him -even a sincere revolutionist, communist, Bolshevik doesn’t matter since it was about making what you believe so your analysis/thesis structurally powerful in the hierarchical-party organs, the emancipatory social organisation was itself conflicting with the idea of emancipation. Here is the key inter-locking argument to link up with the other tread [with Fabio and Michel] that today, there is this p2p advancement via internet and other changes in society and substructure, it is possible to imagine, design and form collaborative alliances between ideologically or in terms of analysis standing in varying positions. One might choose to get in direct or indirect solidarity with other, even there is no organic/weak ties in between it is possible to support an action, community, event etc. "of course we can be critical of rifkin/stieglizt and stress their insufficiencies, but that doesn't mean that at this stage, it is useful or productive to seem them as enemies ; in my understanding, they both support democratisation of politics and the ethicalisation of economics, goals which are in alignment with my own goals .. I'm in favour to combine a radical agenda of structural transformation, with an ongoing co-constructive and meliorist politics based on pragmatic alliances around common goals, that doesn't mean working with everyone, you will notice that I don't even mention social-democrats nor the right parties in my proposal for a coalition of the commons I'm recently thinking about how to conceive of class alliance parties, like the christian democrats .. (I know they are very right wing in the netherlands, but not so in belgium, where they have progressive wings) ... the reason is that social-catholic movements are reacting very positively to p2p ideas" "As a mid-conclusion, one might choose with which agency and to what extend in what forms. P2P infrastructures and networks allow us to see and analyse that and decide to what level engagment with those nodes is possible and needed. This possibility, brings about the chance to form counter-vectoral class alliance and transformative power [in analogy with Wark’s vectoral class] that can generate harminse transformative impact at various levels societies divided in. To know the enemy here is the key again, and making the network maps of the enemy public, as Wikileaks managed to show the glimpse of how can that be done, with idea-practice-courage-quantum logic-and the network. orsan _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
