Paraminder I see your hand, and increase :) 5 relevant items to share, which provides contradictory picture of the contradictory nature of our social relationships and their contradictory relationships to the cosmos they are embedded in:
a hollywood movie: Snowpiercer (free watch online!! is p2p torrent appropriation of a Hollywood movie a good thing or a self-brainwashing) http://movietv.to/movies/698089-Snowpiercer sci-fie version of Lenin's trip... an Hollywood(?) documentary: The 11th Hour https://vimeo.com/107108296 an MTv documentary on Gezi-journalism-music-techncommunicational tools: "RebelMusic Turkey" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcse_8GYIk reminds me MTV' original mission in counter culture re-apprepriation by neoliberal capitalism an event on 'Circuits of struggles' - must have gone there - https://udc2015.wordpress.com/special-conference-plenaries/circuits-of-struggle-resistance-re-appropriation-and-repurposing-in-global-networks-of-class-struggle/ a first chapter of a book: must read Cyber-prolateriat by Nick Dyer-Witheford http://issuu.com/plutopress/docs/pages_from_dyer_cp_no_crops_05-03-2/3 Orsan On 13 June 2015 at 12:05, parminder <[email protected]> wrote: > Interesting and useful conversation. > > This article, a book review, may add some further perspectives to it, > http://www.triple-c.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/689/716 . > > parminder > > > On Saturday 13 June 2015 03:15 PM, peter waterman wrote: > > Ariel: > > It is a pleasure to dialogue with you. But to avoid us going round in > circles, rather than in a constructive spiral, I should really leave a > defence of - no a positive, eco-sensitive, gender-aware - the emancipatory > implications of the internet/the web/cyberspace to those better qualified > than I. > > So I will take issue with one one para of yours: > > 'No I think you are not quite grasping the full meanings of > ‘commodification' and 'colonisation' as materially and culturally embodied > in this manufactured instrument the Internet. That reflects perhaps your > marxist schooling, which tradition has leaned towards an assumption that > technologies are neutral. > Here it seems important to emphasise the difference between a technology > and a tool. The latter is a relatively simple object. The former brings - > and commits us to - a whole fandangle of social relations.' > > My Marxist schooling: A touch, a touch, I do confess. But it was, > rather, a Communist schooling, to which your strictures, here and > elsewhere, do certainly apply. I have been struggling with both, however, > since - let's say - my first experience of living with and under Communism, > in Czechoslovakia, 1955-8. > > Commodification and colonisation: the first of these is pretty much > associated with Marxism. The second was taken over and reworked in > Marxist/Leninist theories of imperialism. > > Technology: I think we have to recognise this as marked by profound > internal contradictions. > > It was not the intention of the railway to make it possible for French > workers to take a cheap trip to London, to meet up with those of other > countries, 1851 (I seem to recall). > > No more was it the intention of the German Empire that their sealed train, > with Lenin inside, should lead to the Bolshevik Revolution (they only > wanted him to screw up the Russian Empire's war effort). > > I go with the spirit of Hans Magnus Enzensberger, commenting on the Paris > 1968 activists' failure to occupy the TV rather than the Opera, and to > depend on wall slogans and hand-lithographed posters. He said, of the > highest capitalist communication technology of that era, 'A distaste for > handling shit is something sewer workers can hardly afford'. > > Well, the latest capitalist technology is, in comparison, dramatically > different from the shit of 1968. It has created a new universe, which I > call Cyberia, of an extremely contradictory nature. It is, of course, both > surrounded by shit, full of shit and productive of shit. You have stressed > the ecology-destructive effects of the technology involved. These are known > to those concerned with emancipation and the commons. As, also, of course, > its capacity for surveillance, control and punishment. The moment of > left-ish cyber-utopianism was the 1980s-90s. What I today see is a wide, > varied, complex and - yes - contradictory wave of radical-democratic > efforts on this novel terrain. I mention a few names: Snowden, Castells, > Bauwens, Laura Agustin, Gerbaudi, Sally Burch, Dyer-Witheford, Jodi Dean. > > You will be considering yourself lucky that I didn't respond to ALL the > paragraphs? > > Best, > > PeterW > > > > 1. 2014. From Coldwar Communism to the Global Justice Movement: > Itinerary of a Long-Distance Internationalist. > > <http://snuproject.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/1987-e-reader-ed-by-peter-waterman-on-labour-social-movements-and-internationalism-the-old-internationalism-and-the-new/>http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism > _to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/ > > <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/> > (Free). > > 2. 2014. Interface Journal Special (Co-Editor), December 2014. 'Social > Movement Internationalisms'. (Free). > <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/> > * <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/>* > 3. 2014. 'The Networked Internationalism of Labour's Others', in Jai > Sen (ed), Peter Waterman (co-ed), The Movement of Movements: > <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/>Struggles > for Other Worlds (Part I). > <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/> (10 > Euros). > 4. 2012. EBook: Recovering Internationalism > <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/>. [A > compilation of papers from the new millenium. Now free in two download > formats] > 5. 2013. EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World Social Forum: > Critical Explorations > http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/ > 6. 2012. Interface Journal Special (co-editor), November 2012: *For > the Global Emancipation of Labour > <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/>* > 7. 2005-? > > <http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf> > Ongoing. Blog: http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.???. Needed: > a Global Labour Charter Movement (2005-Now!) > > <http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf> > 8. 2011. Under, Against, Beyond: Labour and Social Movements Confront > a Globalised, Informatised Capitalism > <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/>(2011) (c. > 1,000 pages of Working Papers, free, from the 1980's-90's). > > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Ariel Salleh <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> On 11 Jun 2015, at 7:27 am, peter waterman <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Ariel, hola! >> I am wondering whether or not you received a message I sent in response >> to you, dated c. May 29. >> >> Peter dear friend, I did reply - to you and Jai and Mikel all together - >> but it evaporated in the ether - which may well be a sign of things to come. >> >> It might have got lost in space. I will not repeat it. But I do want to >> respond to what you say below (re-pasted by me so that it fits my screen). >> I know it is a pain on the eye, but I will do this para by para and in >> CAPS. >> >> >> *While considering security aspects of the 2016 WSF in Canada, >> remember that the more we embed our activities in capitalist technologies >> like ICT the more we give up our autonomy and make our politics transparent >> and vulnerable to unsympathetic powers. * >> I AM WONDERING WHETHER THERE ARE ANY EMANCIPATORY TECHNOLOGIES AROUND, >> EITHER PRE- OR POST-CAPITALIST. WE ALL USE TRAINS, MOST OF US USE PLANES, >> WE WATCH OR PRODUCE MOVIES, VIDEOS, PHOTOS, PRINT. OF THESE THE ONLY ONE >> THAT IS NOT CAPITALIST MIGHT BE PRINT - WHICH PROVIDED A MAJOR MEANS FOR >> THE DEVELOPMENT OF CAPITALISM. >> ICT IS THE MOST CONTRADICTORY TECHNOLOGY CAPITALISM HAS PRODUCED. ALL >> SERIOUS LEFT WRITERS ON IT EITHER RECOGNISE OR EVEN SEARCH OUT ITS PRESENT >> AND IMMINENT DANGERS. THEY THEN, HOWEVER, GO ON TO CONSIDER ITS AMBIGUOUS >> OR EMANCIPATORY POTENTIALS (AND CURRENT USES). CHECK THE NICK >> DYER-WITHEFORD CHAPTER I POSTED THIS VERY DAY - EVEN IF HE DOES NOT HERE >> SHOW ANY GENDER SENSITIVITY. >> >> Agreed >> >> *But the idea of an Internet Social Forum carries much deeper >> political contradictions than this.* >> *Technologies are never culturally neutral but embody value systems >> within them. Recent List discussions in favour of an Internet Social Forum >> overlook this by embracing wholesale a form of colonisation by the >> commodity society, fully opposed to the alter-global social critique that >> WSF is building on.* >> COLONISATION AND COMMODIFICATION ARE FULLY RECOGNISED BY EMANCIPATORY >> ACTIVISTS AND THEORISTS. SO THERE IS HERE NO WHOLESALE EMBRACE BUT A >> SELECTIVE USE INTENDED TO SUBVERT AND SURPASS COLONISATION AND >> COMMODIFICATION. >> >> No I think you are not quite grasping the full meanings of >> ‘commodification' and 'colonisation' as materially and culturally embodied >> in this manufactured instrument the Internet. That reflects perhaps your >> marxist schooling, which tradition has leaned towards an assumption that >> technologies are neutral. >> Here it seems important to emphasise the difference between a technology >> and a tool. The latter is a relatively simple object. The former brings - >> and commits us to - a whole fandangle of social relations. >> >> SECONDLY, IT IS QUITE UNCLEAR TO ME WHAT TECHNOLOGY WOULD, FOR YOU, BE >> COMPATIBLE WITH 'ALTER-G' (A TERM I NEVER USE BECAUSE OF ITS DEPENDENCE ON >> THE G-WORD. I PREFER 'GLOBAL JUSTICE AND SOLIDARITY MOVEMENT'). >> >> A globally just technology would not damage the planetary ecosystem that >> we all depend on for our very existence. The Internet has massive costs in >> terms of toxifying water - just as we approach “peak water”. It’s global >> warming impacts alone should be enough to stop WSF activists in their >> tracks. >> Then there are the medical effects of electromagnetic radiation on human >> bodies. >> >> WOULD THIS IMPLY A RETURN TO THE CHASQUIHUASI SYSTEM OF COMMUNICATION >> USED IN THE ANDES BEFORE THE SPANISH INTRODUCED THE HORSE. >> >> WELL THAT QUITE REMARKABLE SYSTEM (OR RUNNERS AND STAGEING POSTS) >> ENABLED COMMUNICATION OVER 5,000 KM. BUT IT WAS AN IMPERIAL SYSTEM, USING A >> PRE-ALPHABETIC MESSAGING UNDERSTOOD ONLY BY THE RULERS. >> FURTHER IT MUST BE POINTED OUT - AND HAS BEEN IN THIS AND OTHER EXCHANGES >> - THAT WSF INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL COMMUNICATIONS HAVE BEEN THE MOST >> UNDEVELOPED ASPECT OF ITS ACTIVITIES. >> >> Important to avoid lapsing into ideological assumptions, like the Social >> Darwinist notions of “development” or “going backwards”. It is part of the >> capitalist mythos that history is linear and upwards, whereas in fact ever >> new forms of idiocy and barbarism arise all around us as we speak. >> >> *It is ironic that a Canadian hosted WSF emphasising indigenous >> knowing and being, as well as economic models based on de-growth, should >> tie itself to an instrument of global military domination and social >> homogenisation.* >> NO IT IS NOT IRONIC. INDIGENOUS PEOPLES WOULD HAVE NO INTERNATIONAL, >> POSSIBLY NO INTERCOMMUNAL NETWORKING IF NOT FOR ICT. >> >> I am not so sure that this is true, Peter. Peoples have travelled across >> land and sea and made cultural exchanges for centuries. >> >> THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH 'DE-GROWTH' (ANOTHER NEGATIVE TERM I DO NOT >> CARE FOR, THO I AGREE WITH THE GENERAL ARGUMENT IT EXPRESSES). THAT IS >> THOSE ASPECTS OF PRODUCTION, CONSUMPTION AND DUMPING WELL PORTRAYED IN THE >> ITEM YOU ATTACHED. ANY HOLISTIC EMANCIPATORY ITC STRATEGY HAS TO PRIORITISE >> THIS INCREASINGLY BURNING ISSUE. MY GUESS IS THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SO. >> ANYONE BETTER INFORMED THAN ME ABOUT THIS? >> >> We share these reservations about the de-growth movement. It is a very >> tentative step towards eco-sufficiency and global justice on the part of >> folks in the global North. >> >> *Yes, we are already using the internet here for our communications, >> but that should not imply some kind of historical inevitability. For >> example, I drove a car for 3 decades, then decided to refuse the technology >> - one small step towards eco-sufficiency.* >> I ALSO GAVE UP MY CAR, ARIEL. AND I HAVE ARGUED THAT THE STANDARD WSF >> MODEL IS ANTI-ECOLOGICAL IN REQUIRING AIR TRAVEL OVER LONG DISTANCES. AND >> WITHOUT RECOGNISING ANY CONTRADICTION HERE. BUT ARE YOU ALSO GOING TO GIVE >> UP AIR TRAVEL? >> >> The environmental costs of jet-setting to WSFs should be eased somewhat >> by the Polycentric WSF model. >> As a slightly tongue in cheek suggestion: Australians and Pacific >> Islanders are both small populations and remote from other continents - so >> perhaps a principle of "common but differentiated responsibilities" might >> apply in this case! >> >> *Political security and cultural homogenisation aside, reliance on >> the Internet also has neocolonial impacts, human health costs, and severe >> environmental effects - as the following article explains.* >> OK, THE ADDITIONAL ARGUMENT HERE IS THAT OF CULTURAL HOMOGENISATION. THIS >> HAS BEEN WELL UNDERWAY WITH TV OVER MAYBE A 50-YEAR PERIOD. THIS WAS A >> MAJOR ISSUE AMONGST LEFT MEDIA CRITICS/ACTIVISTS IN LATIN AMERICA. TV, LIKE >> RADIO, LIKE CINEMA IS PRIMARILY A ONE-TO-MANY MODE, AND IT WAS, INDEED, >> COMMODITISATION, THAT WIPED OUT THE INTERNATIONAL WORKER (ACTUALLY >> COMMUNIST) FILM AND RADIO MOVEMENTS. >> >> ICT IS BASED ON THE LOGIC OF FEED-BACK AND IS, INCREASINGLY A >> MANY-TO-MANY MEANS OF COMMUNICATION. >> >> Radio is very much a two-way technology, of course - as for TV, I’ve >> never had one. >> >> THE PEER TO PEER MOVEMENT IS, PRECISELY CONCERNED TO ENSURE THAT IT >> BECOMES SO, THAT IT IS DE-COMMODITISED, AND THAT P2P IS NOT CAPTURED FOR >> ITS OWN NEFARIOUS PURPOSES BY CAPITAL, STATE AND PATRIARCHY. >> >> This strikes me as illusory - and rests on a quite thin notion of >> commodification. P2P cannot possibly manufacture the global infrastructure >> itself but will needs rely on some kind of capitalised industry to do so. >> >> >> *There is a huge dilemma here for WSF - and one that cannot be answered >> simply by ensuring "democratic consultation" and “protecting human rights” >> in the digital sector. * >> IT IS NOT LIMITED TO THESE TWO AIMS OR VALUES. >> >> Well actually I think it is, as long as cultural, medical, environmental >> aspects are continually backgrounded by Left and Right alike. >> A >> >> >> *At the very least, future WSF meetings - polycentric and otherwise - >> must carefully Workshop these critical questions.* >> AGREED. >> >> Ariel >> BEST, >> P. >> >> 1. 2014. From Coldwar Communism to the Global Justice Movement: >> Itinerary of a Long-Distance Internationalist. >> >> <http://snuproject.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/1987-e-reader-ed-by-peter-waterman-on-labour-social-movements-and-internationalism-the-old-internationalism-and-the-new/>http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism >> _to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/ >> >> <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/> >> (Free). >> >> 2. 2014. Interface Journal Special (Co-Editor), December 2014. 'Social >> Movement Internationalisms'. (Free). >> <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/> >> * <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/>* >> 3. 2014. 'The Networked Internationalism of Labour's Others', in Jai >> Sen (ed), Peter Waterman (co-ed), The Movement of Movements: >> <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/>Struggles >> for Other Worlds (Part I). >> <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/> (10 >> Euros). >> 4. 2012. EBook: Recovering Internationalism >> <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/>. [A >> compilation of papers from the new millenium. Now free in two download >> formats] >> 5. 2013. EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World Social Forum: >> Critical Explorations >> http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/ >> 6. 2012. Interface Journal Special (co-editor), November 2012: *For >> the Global Emancipation of Labour >> <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/>* >> 7. 2005-? >> >> <http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf> >> Ongoing. Blog: http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.???. Needed: >> a Global Labour Charter Movement (2005-Now!) >> >> <http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf> >> 8. 2011. Under, Against, Beyond: Labour and Social Movements >> Confront a Globalised, Informatised Capitalism >> <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/>(2011) (c. >> 1,000 pages of Working Papers, free, from the 1980's-90's). >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > ** WSFDiscuss is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of > information and views on the experience, practise, and theory of the World > Social Forum at any level (local, national, regional, and global) and on > related social and political movements and issues. 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