I've just noticed that a lot of people who are into really good stuff like the cooperative movement, sustainable agriculture and the like -- as well as the traditional social democratic Left -- treat high technology and networked communications as though they were synonymous with Silicon Valley dotcom capitalism, or trojan horses for the right wing.
On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Kevin, > > Show some love and expand a little on these cryptic remarks that leave me > puzzled. > > Anna > >> On 30 Sep 2015, at 01:59, Kevin Carson >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Kim Stanley Robinson presented a pretty level-headed terraforming >> scenario in the Mars Trilogy IMO. >> >> This article reflects a false "Green vs. Expert" dichotomy that is, >> sadly, all too common on the Left. Being green and anti-capitalist >> means, ipso facto, being at least a primativist lite. >> >>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Eric Hunting <[email protected]> wrote: >>> What Musk was describing in this interview is a concept sometimes called >>> 'ballistic terraforming' and which can be achieved in a variety of ways. >>> Musk chose to refer to a method that sounds more realistic to most people; >>> nuclear bombs. The easier and more practical way more commonly proposed is >>> steering small comets or icy objects from the outer solar system into >>> collision with Mars. As inconceivable as that sounds, that's relatively >>> simple through the use of automated spacecraft as 'gravity tugs' to coax >>> planned changes in orbit, though it may take decades to move an object into >>> the desired path. The point of all this is simple; triggering an atmospheric >>> thermal cascade by putting enough water vapor into the atmosphere at once so >>> that, by the greenhouse effect, it raises temperature and causes more water >>> in the Mars crust globally to evaporate into the atmosphere and >>> progressively increases the temperature and atmosphere density to where the >>> surface might be colonized by very hardy plants like lichens--if they can be >>> adapted to tolerate the large amounts of toxic perchlorate salts in the >>> water and soil. In this way enough atmosphere might be built up to where >>> humans can operate on the surface without space suits--though still >>> requiring supplemental oxygen. This 'fast' process is still a process that >>> would take many generations to accomplish, as opposed to the very many >>> centuries pumping synthetic greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere would >>> using the other more commonly suggested method. Realistically, it may take >>> generations of research from the present day before we even know enough >>> about Mars to say whether or not these methods would work and it remains an >>> open question of whether it would be worthwhile given that Mars, lacking an >>> active planetary core, cannot produce its own magnetosphere to help hold an >>> atmosphere sustainably--which is why it lost it's formerly dense atmosphere >>> in the first place. And, of course, we don't even know if long term living >>> under Mars' reduced gravity is safe or if a clinical solution to that >>> problem is possible. By the time any of that matters, the technology >>> proposed may be made completely moot by nanotechnology and the 'human race' >>> may be long supplanted by transhumans who would need none of these elaborate >>> machinations to live in that environment. >>> >>> So, basically, the author of this piece, triggered by the 'N word', is >>> complaining about something that is, at best, pure speculation if not >>> retrofuturist SciFi. What personally annoys me is the playing to the old >>> argument of; "why should we go to space just to export our terrestrial >>> madness?" This is rooted in a notion that the human race is ultimately a >>> mistake that needs to be contained, that all works of man are inherently >>> profane, and that we need to 'grow up' more and get our terrestrial house in >>> order to be worthy of doing things in the sacrosanct heavenly realms beyond >>> Earth. It never occurs to proponents of this notion that the act of going to >>> space might be a necessary part of that process of growing up. That we might >>> need the challenge of the space environment to ultimately learn the craft of >>> sustainability because Mother Earth molly-coddles us with a too-benign >>> environment that make its too easy to cheat. That we might need frontiers on >>> which to experiment in new ways of life when every single part of the Old >>> World is now owned and ruled-over by someone with vested interests in doing >>> things old ways. >>> >>> There is a fundamental lack of understanding of the concept of space >>> settlement here which relates to preconceptions about space activity and its >>> relationship to the military industrial complex and exploitation for >>> nationalist prestige. It is assumed to be some expression of militaristic or >>> corporatist culture--understandable given that the outpost architecture >>> commonly illustrated is always militaristic in character. But in practice >>> every plausible space settlement must--of necessity--be a cohabitation >>> eco-village seeking an ideal sustainability. (on pain of death) The ultimate >>> space settler will not see themselves as a 'conqueror' of space but a >>> gardener of the universe and an experimenter in alternative lifestyle. The >>> garden is the essential functional and cultural core of any truly plausible >>> space settlement concept. The bottom-line of space development is that >>> learning to live in space means learning to go from dirt, rocks, and >>> sunlight to a sustainable middle-class standard of living using tools and >>> systems on the scale of home appliances--and there is nothing about life on >>> Earth and the way civilization here works that such capability will not >>> radically change. If one wished to make a valid argument here, argue about >>> the largely disingenuous and retrofuturist nature of contemporary proposals >>> for so-called space settlement coming from governments who are, ultimately, >>> not in the business of inventing new places for people to go and not pay >>> taxes and from corporations who are fully aware that the only sustainable >>> ROI from space not based on exploiting government bankrolls cannot realize >>> that ROI in banks on Earth but only in infrastructure out there. Complain >>> about the root corruption of priorities in national space agencies that must >>> pander to the vanities of opposing political interests to survive as venues >>> for pork-barrel politics. Complain about the continued elitism and >>> militarism of the contemporary space development vision when the technology >>> emerging and already at hand points to a near future where the settlement of >>> any body in space is soon to become a community project akin to Linux. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/29/15 2:35 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> 1. Fwd: [NetworkedLabour] Fwd: [Debate-List] (Fwd) Elon Musk's >>> bourgeois Mars (Michel Bauwens) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Eric Hunting >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> P2P Foundation - Mailing list >>> >>> Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net >>> Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net >>> >>> Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by >>> making a donation. Thank you for your support. >>> https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation >>> >>> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Kevin Carson >> Senior Fellow, Karl Hess Scholar in Social Theory >> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org >> >> "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow >> "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous >> >> Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto >> http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com >> Desktop Regulatory State http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> P2P Foundation - Mailing list >> >> Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net >> Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net >> >> Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by >> making a donation. Thank you for your support. >> https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation >> >> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation > > _______________________________________________ > P2P Foundation - Mailing list > > Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net > Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net > > Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by > making a donation. Thank you for your support. > https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation > > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation -- Kevin Carson Senior Fellow, Karl Hess Scholar in Social Theory Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Desktop Regulatory State http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by making a donation. Thank you for your support. https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
