Awesome -- thanks for the info, Kevin! On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:24 PM, Holy Mountain <[email protected]> wrote: > "LETS systems where you have to take conventional currency you earned in the > capitalist system, and then buy alternative currency with it to use > with participating merchants, is a feelgood measure that may keep more > local dollars in established downtown businesses. But that's about > all." > > Hey Kevin, > > Those kinds of currencies where you use fiat to purchase local currency do > exist such as the Bristol Pound and I agree there is not much to it. I'm not > going to defend LETS either, Matt is more likely referring to it for it's > familiarity rather than efficacy. While not explicit in the text he usually > advocates for Mutual Credit systems which do create credit and liquidity > backed by real assets. There is no requirement to purchase credits with > fiat currency. To participate in the Mutual Credit system you just need to > prove that you have some assets or regular turn over. Credit limits are > based on this and set by agreement among particpants in the network. It can > start with businesses and then they can later issue currency into > circulation, for example through payment to employees. > > Tom Greco has written about Sardex which is a successful example. > > https://beyondmoney.net/2015/08/20/sardex-an-emerging-model-for-credit-clearing-exchanges/ > > > > > > > > > > > On 31 January 2017 at 01:18, Kevin Carson > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> The problem with many LETS systems is that they're not credit systems >> at all for creating liquidity where there was none before in the >> capitalist economy, but rather just glorified green stamps. The most >> important function of an alternative currency is to create liquidity >> by advancing credit to those who currently lack purchasing power. LETS >> systems where you have to take conventional currency you earned in the >> capitalist system, and then buy alternative currency with it to use >> with participating merchants, is a feelgood measure that may keep more >> local dollars in established downtown businesses. But that's about >> all. >> >> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 2:53 AM, Michel Bauwens >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > A money system for the people - if we want it >> > >> > Money creation, like alchemy, is shrouded in ambiguous language and >> > yields >> > eternal wealth! For most of history these secrets have been used to >> > empower >> > sovereigns to spend money without the painful business of taxing or >> > borrowing. Those foolish enough to try to grasp it with their rational >> > minds >> > are beffuddled by unexpected politics, propaganda and paradoxes. In >> > modern >> > times this power now resides almost absolutely with banks, who lend >> > money >> > which doesn't exist, and reap the interest as if it did! Are the >> > alchemic >> > fumes making your head spin? >> > >> > What if those proto-chemists were found to be not 'making gold' but >> > merely >> > charlatans 'taking gold'? Some sovereigns managed money better than >> > others, >> > but now that power resides with private corporations. The languge of >> > 'wealth >> > creation' masks the real intention which is extract money from society >> > as >> > fast as possible, to lock it up in tax havens, and to drive the masses, >> > deprived of a medium of exchange, back to the bank to borrow more! The >> > social conseqences are increasingly acknowledged (although not by banks) >> > to >> > include the rich-poor divide, short-termism, erosion of democracy, the >> > military industrial complex and, via the growth imperative, climate >> > change >> > itself. >> > >> > Users of money and financial services seem to have very little influence >> > in >> > the matter. However much we disapprove of banks, boycotting them (as I >> > do) >> > makes normal life impossible. Banks are part of our social DNA, that's >> > what >> > Too Big To Fail means. >> > >> > The problem is not that saving and lending are critical functions which >> > only >> > banks can do. Indeed the idea that money is some kind of stuff which we >> > rent >> > is merely a misleading metaphor. The problem is that only a bank can >> > underwrite your IOU so that everyone else will accept it. If all the >> > banks >> > and bank accounts were taken down in some Mr Robot scenario, the only >> > money >> > left would be a tiny volume of notes and coins. We wouldn't be able to >> > pay >> > each other and the economy would stop dead. >> > >> > Only by understanding the real function of banks, can we consider >> > alternatives that might work for society. You might think the alchemical >> > fumes are affecting me when I say the way forward is in the collective >> > relocating our trust. But it is worth considering just how much trust we >> > place in banks, not only to guard our savings from theft and bail-ins, >> > but >> > to invest responsibly without the need for taxpayer bailouts, to set >> > interest rates such as LIBOR fairly, not to launder money for >> > international >> > drug cartels, and indeed to manage the quantity of money in the economy. >> > And >> > compare that trust with the trust we place in our friends, family and >> > business associates. >> > >> > So the essence of bypassing banks, at least to the extent that we don't >> > use >> > money to pay interest and taxes, is understanding how IOUs work. In the >> > <a >> > href="https://hbr.org/2010/11/the-irish-banking-crisis-a-par";>Irish >> > banking >> > strikes</a> of 1970s, the whole economy ran on IOUs in the form of >> > cheques. >> > Allegedly pub landlords took the role of judging creditworthiness. It >> > wasn't >> > the most efficient system but it worked. Similarly in Greece before the >> > Euro, it was common practice for strong local businesses to pay their >> > bills >> > by cheque, and for that cheque to circulate as money before returning to >> > the >> > business. Both of these are examples of interest free money creation, >> > and >> > taken to scale, they create stable economies (no more boom and bust) in >> > which credit is always available. >> > >> > So how could this be instituted today? Its not enough to hope that all >> > the >> > banks fail at once, (and wish for the calamity that would cause). It >> > can't >> > be expected that a whole culture would participate while banks are still >> > omnipresent, But there are thousands of groups worldwide who practice >> > forms >> > of collaborative credit - the most numerous are business barter networks >> > and >> > LETS (Local Exchange Trading Systems). If only we had the collective >> > sense >> > to use them, not only would the economy's liquidity problems be solved, >> > but >> > economic policy would devolve much closer to us, the people who actually >> > back the money! >> > >> > A key difference between these systems, which I call 'collaborative >> > credit' >> > systems and the mainstream economy is the principle of exchange. >> > Conventional money is designed for saving, which means NOT exchanging. >> > In >> > fact by making debts more and more unpayable it can be shown even to >> > prevent >> > exchange. Many things can be used as a store of value, but a good medium >> > of >> > exchange requires that social consensus which is unique to money. Money >> > which really facilitates exchange must be always <em>available</em> to >> > be >> > earned or borrowed, and it should be less valuable than real things to >> > prevent its hoarding. The principle of exchange says that we should give >> > and >> > receive the same amount of value; that money isn't valuable in itself, >> > it is >> > just a way of tracking the balance of my giving and receiving. By >> > committing >> > to give and receive favours in equal measure, we acknowledge that being >> > owed >> > favours doesn't put one in a position of power, but brings with it an >> > obligation to spend back. Taking responsibility for our own finances >> > takes >> > effort yes, but probably less than feeding a parasite! With money no >> > longer >> > scarce, competition (for money) gives way to collaboration. >> > Collaborative >> > credit implies that everybody's promise has equivalent value, which in >> > economics is called fungibility, an important property of money. Because >> > every credit is balanced by an equal and opposite debit, aggregate >> > supply >> > and demand in the system are perfectly balanced <em>by design</em>. The >> > simplicity and elegance of the exchange paradigm makes neoliberal >> > economics >> > look like the blind leading the blind up an alley without a paddle! >> > >> > By forming what the Germans call 'exchange circles', narrow fields of >> > reciprocation, we reduce our personal (and aggregate) demands for money; >> > and >> > within our own economic circles, we reclaim a measure of power of credit >> > issuance and even monetary policy. >> > >> > So why isn't everybody doing it already? Even in Greece where the need >> > is >> > dire, the move to alternatives forms of production and exchange is >> > almost >> > imperceptible. I could list reasons all day about financial illiteracy, >> > breakdown of trust, atomisation of society, but instead we should look >> > to >> > those who ARE doing it. >> > >> > Fortunately collaborative credit does not require that 'the masses' >> > participate, only that the circles have sufficient density. The bigger, >> > and >> > more connected exchange circles become, and the more goods and services >> > move >> > within them, the more they look and behave like money systems, spreading >> > more risk more evenly, and allowing credit of greater quantities for >> > longer >> > durations. >> > >> > If we use legal money, we do so for better or for worse, under the law. >> > But >> > the sentiment "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" needs no law, >> > no >> > regulation, no taxation, and no money. Those who are serious about a >> > fairer >> > economy, are the ones finding, trusting and working for each other. >> > There is >> > no alchemy for creating wealth, but the obscuration of money creation is >> > about appropriating wealth created by others. >> > >> > Matthew Slater co-authored the Money & Society massive online open >> > course >> > with Professor Jem Bendell. Participation is free and it starts again on >> > Feb >> > 19th. See http://ho.io/mooc >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: >> > http://commonstransition.org >> > >> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> > >> > Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> > >> > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > P2P Foundation - Mailing list >> > >> > Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net >> > Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net >> > >> > Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by >> > making a donation. Thank you for your support. >> > https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation >> > >> > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Kevin Carson >> Senior Fellow, Karl Hess Scholar in Social Theory >> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org >> >> "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow >> "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous >> >> Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto >> http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com >> Desktop Regulatory State http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> P2P Foundation - Mailing list >> >> Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net >> Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net >> >> Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by >> making a donation. Thank you for your support. >> https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation >> >> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation > > > > > -- > Skype: kev.flanagan > Phone: +353 87 743 5660 > > _______________________________________________ > P2P Foundation - Mailing list > > Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net > Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net > > Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by > making a donation. Thank you for your support. > https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation > > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >
-- Kevin Carson Senior Fellow, Karl Hess Scholar in Social Theory Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Desktop Regulatory State http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by making a donation. Thank you for your support. https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
