On 6/19/16, Richard Brown <[email protected]> wrote: > On 19 June 2016 at 16:41, Dave Plater <[email protected]> wrote: >>> The pkg in multimedia:libs is about one hundred, thousand, million >>> times more at risk of being broken than the pkg in Factory >> >> Not if it's well maintained > > There is _NO SUCH THING_ as a well maintained Devel Project. > > https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Factory_development_model > > They EXIST to be where things are put together, broken and ultimately > fixed before being submitted to Factory for testing into Tumbleweed > > A Devel Project which doesn't break from time to time is not doing > it's job properly. Firstly, I've been a multimedia and other single packages, package maintainer in openSUSE since 2009 and fixed many bugs. I think that my opinion is qualified. Breakages used to occur in Factory and now they are picked up in Tumbleweed and they are fixed in a branch of the devel project. Upstream releases packages that have been tested across the entire Linux spectrum of distributions. If I pick up a breakage I first look if it has been fixed upstream in git or whatever revision control system is used and apply a patch.
>>> >>> Because it's a devel project, where packages are MEANT to be broken >>> from time to time, meanwhile we KNOW the ffmpeg packages in Factory >>> work as they get tested in openQA as part of the VLC testing. >>> >>> I've said it before and I'll say it again Packman building against >>> multimedia:libs has always been silly >> >> Once Packman packages weren't linked and that resulted in many >> problems with incompatible libraries and out of sync maintenance. > > I have no problem with linking, but link to the right thing for petes sake > > ffmpeg in Packman is linked to openSUSE.org:multimedia:libs > > This means it is version 3.0.2 > > In Tumbleweed ffmpeg is 2.8.6 > > In Leap ffmpeg is 2.8.6 > > In Leap 42.2 ffmpeg is 2.8.6 > > End result: Any Packman user is now forced to upgrade ffmpeg and > potentially ffmpeg related packages, including many multimedia > applications, to the versions in packman to a version of ffmpeg which > is UNTESTED and NOT SUPPORTED by the openSUSE Project (yet) ffmpeg is well tested upstream, I use the latest version on Leap and I use ffmpeg frequently. I have the ffmpeg libraries from both ffmpeg ABI 3 and 2 on my system, this is what the shared library policy is all about and the ffmpeg developers stick to the policy, ffmpeg libraries and gstreamer libraries are the keystone of linux multimedia. > > In short, this is dangerous, wrong, stupid and downright idiotic.. and > I'm being polite and holding back what i really think about it. > > At the very LEAST ffmpeg in Packman should be linked to Factory/Tumbleweed No, Packman users want the latest packages, Packman is the Tumbleweed of multimedia but it doesn't have automatic tests like Tumbleweed because it isn't an installation media it is a repository for packages that cannot be in the openSUSE distribution. > > Packman for Leap should be linked to the version in Leap, so that > users do not have to suffer needless risk upgrading their packages. > >> Packman is a safe way for users to get the newest packages, especially >> Leap users because it rarely gets new packages. It's a pity somebody >> doesn't donate some extra server power to Packman to speed up the >> build cycle. Maintaining the Packman packages in multimedia apps and >> libs has taken away the old volatility that used to come from Packman. >> It's a far better option to enabling multiple obs repositories for Leap. > > No, Packman is not a safe way and this thread is sadly yet another > example of packman maintainers ignoring sound advice from seasoned > packagers who know what they're talking about. I actually don't agree with the zypper dup -r Packman model and would rather see a Requires: package-version-release model but this is still to be qualified, I never dup Packman, I just looked at my mix of gstreamer packages and they are from both openSUSE and Packman with no ill effects. > > And I'm not really talking about myself, you can ignore me all you > want, but Bjorn is an expert on all things packaging and OBS, > especially when it comes to large projects, it's downright crazy that > his good advice appears to be ignored. > > Just as Tomas Chvatal's has been ignored on this list repeatedly. > > Please guys, I've been a long supporter of Packman, even running > several servers for pmbs before I changed employer, so not erode my > goodwill and poison my soft spot for your efforts by stubbornly > sticking to your guns and risking the smooth operation of Tumbleweed > and Leap users in the process. > > Please link your packages more appropriately. > Please do whatever you can to avoid unnecessary drift between Packman > and the distributions for which you are building Packman for. > Please rebuild="direct" > > and Please listen to guys like Bjorn and Tomas when they give advice, > they know what they're talking about > > - Richard > http://rootco.de > I've only recently started active maintenance in Packman and I monitor the list daily and recently have seen very few real breakages. This thread was actually started to report a potential OBS/PMBS problem but I don't see a resolution of the question of why gstreamer is actually rebuilding so frequently. As I stated I don't agree with zypper dup Packman unless it is used as a quick way of fixing a problem but these problems don't occur often besides, in this case it only caused frequent gstreamer updates. Best Regards Dave Plater proud openSUSE member, user plater _______________________________________________ Packman mailing list [email protected] http://lists.links2linux.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/packman
