On 20.06.2016 00:36, Richard Brown wrote:
On 19 June 2016 at 16:41, Dave Plater <davejpla...@gmail.com> wrote:The pkg in multimedia:libs is about one hundred, thousand, million times more at risk of being broken than the pkg in FactoryNot if it's well maintainedThere is _NO SUCH THING_ as a well maintained Devel Project. https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Factory_development_model They EXIST to be where things are put together, broken and ultimately fixed before being submitted to Factory for testing into Tumbleweed A Devel Project which doesn't break from time to time is not doing it's job properly.
You may repeat that as long as you like just to make en excuse for your team's bad maintenance practices of OBS but no actual user will ever believe that. Also, minuscule and specific testing in virtual machines or whatever you do in that "openQA" has never saved from actual problems even while using 100% official packages. Probably not because it's bad but because it's not enough to negate dumb human decisions, overcomplex bureaucracy with the lack of well-structured up-to-date human-readable guides to deal with it, lack of actual usage and belief that your dysfunctional defaults (once again, screw KDE5, Gnome3, VLC, pulseaudio, wicked, kernel-default and, especially, BTRFS !) is the one and only way to do things.
Because it's a devel project, where packages are MEANT to be broken from time to time, meanwhile we KNOW the ffmpeg packages in Factory work as they get tested in openQA as part of the VLC testing. I've said it before and I'll say it again Packman building against multimedia:libs has always been sillyOnce Packman packages weren't linked and that resulted in many problems with incompatible libraries and out of sync maintenance.In short, this is dangerous, wrong, stupid and downright idiotic.. and I'm being polite and holding back what i really think about it. At the very LEAST ffmpeg in Packman should be linked to Factory/Tumbleweed Packman for Leap should be linked to the version in Leap, so that users do not have to suffer needless risk upgrading their packages.
For once we agree ! Building anything against non-official repo version of something so fundamental as ffmpeg is almost as idiotic and irresponsible as removing distribution installer from the official repo of that distribution.
- Instead, "TW" should get kick in the ass to update its ffmpeg version.VLC and mpv aren't the only packages depending on it, you know ! But then again, we're talking about the people who seem to removed 32bit gstreamer packages from Packman's TW repo even though wine's A/V capabilities are dependant upon them. And because of things like that whole wine bugtracker is filled with complaints for years ( https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9127 ) from users who's distribution doesn't build it properly. Goodbye, pre-rendered cutscenes in games and multimedia applications in general.
-Why the hell there is there "Factory" and "TW" repoes with different configuration and packages ? Which one a normal person should use ?
You both, TW team and Packman team, are at fault here. * Just update ffmpeg in TW. * Link ffmpeg and gstreamer and any other framework for each distro independently. * Work on better unnecessary rebuild-avoidance for OBS. * Whatever commercial entity owns openSUSE should buy Packman servers, since it purposely made any openSUSE desktop installation 100% dependant upon it. Novell had a Russian office, Russian law spits on software patenting, they can have them there legally.I would say that if anything happens with Packman then, most likely, openSUSE will lose all its non-server installations.
Packman is a safe way for users to get the newest packages, especially Leap users because it rarely gets new packages. It's a pity somebody doesn't donate some extra server power to Packman to speed up the build cycle. Maintaining the Packman packages in multimedia apps and libs has taken away the old volatility that used to come from Packman. It's a far better option to enabling multiple obs repositories for Leap.No, Packman is not a safe way and this thread is sadly yet another example of packman maintainers ignoring sound advice from seasoned packagers who know what they're talking about. And I'm not really talking about myself, you can ignore me all you want, but Bjorn is an expert on all things packaging and OBS, especially when it comes to large projects, it's downright crazy that his good advice appears to be ignored. Just as Tomas Chvatal's has been ignored on this list repeatedly. Please guys, I've been a long supporter of Packman, even running several servers for pmbs before I changed employer, so not erode my goodwill and poison my soft spot for your efforts by stubbornly sticking to your guns and risking the smooth operation of Tumbleweed and Leap users in the process. Please link your packages more appropriately. Please do whatever you can to avoid unnecessary drift between Packman and the distributions for which you are building Packman for. Please rebuild="direct" and Please listen to guys like Bjorn and Tomas when they give advice, they know what they're talking about
Such a good advice... if only consideration gone both ways. On 20.06.2016 11:28, Dave Plater wrote: >> No, Packman is not a safe way and this thread is sadly yet another >> > example of packman maintainers ignoring sound advice from seasoned >> > packagers who know what they're talking about. > I actually don't agree with the zypper dup -r Packman model and would > rather see a Requires: package-version-release model but this is still > to be qualified, I never dup Packman, I just looked at my mix of > gstreamer packages and they are from both openSUSE and Packman with no > ill effects. >Or you could just properly set repo priority, the last distinguishing feature of openSUSE along with yast, and not mess with release versions which would make all dependant packages hardcoded for your particular build for no reason.
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