I was lurking on this one, but Fr. John just made a point I would like
to add to.  It is a bit of a tangent, but-

John's point about "living off the land" reminded me of all the times
I have seen admins who *have* the sexy tools when things get ugly- but
they never really learned how to use them or what the the tools could
really do, much less considered if/how/when to use them in a crisis.
I have even "heard" about admins battling LAN infestations who didn't
know/forgot how to use their perimeter security appliance and had to
cry for help to the vendor's engineering team.

Jack

On 8/1/09, John Strand <[email protected]> wrote:
> So far the BLue team recommendations have been fantastic, so I though
> I would drop in a few suggestions to keep the discussion going.
>
> One of the first things I wish any BLue teamer would do is download
> the SANS incident response cheat-sheets for Windows and for Linux.
>
> http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=5354
>
> http://www.sans.org/info/3826
>
> http://www.sans.org/info/3831
>
> Consider this the basics to play.  I hate it when I see a defender
> stare at Task Manager for an hour or two with a blank stare on their
> face. What are they looking for?  EvilBackdoor.exe?
>
> Now, how about how to use your firewall on Linux?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUdCsZpt2ew
>
> What if you do not have a firewall on a Windows server?  You are
> screwed right?  No, look at IPSec filters.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amHaBmOlfgE
>
> Why is it that many times the BLue team keeps getting owned by RPC or
> SMB  and they don't block the ports?
>
> And what about some log analysis kung-fu?
>
> (Special note:I am trying to invoke the all powerful Red SANS
> Instructor with the above statement.)
>
> If IP Address X, or range Y keeps attacking you, block them.
>
> (Another special note..  I recommend only blocking temporarily and
> being very careful when you do.  Otherwise, you may DoS yourself.)
>
> Sure, third party tools are great..  However, many REd/BLue activities
> (I am talking to you Tim) will not allow defenders to get access to
> all of this stuff right out of the gate.
>
> Why?
>
> Is it because the people who put these games on evil? Possibly (I am
> still talking to you Tim). Possibly.  However, the real reason is that
> all of our security technologies, while helpful, have their
> limitations. We depend on them far to much.  We need to learn how to
> "live off the land" as it were.    Also, a solid long term strategy
> may not work right now.  Developing these defender skills for short
> term damage control is key to our industry.
>
> So, there have been some very cool recommendations for third party
> tools.  Now I want you to focus on the CLI and the built-in tools you
> get with a Windows or Linux system.
>
>
> This is, quite possibly, the best security list ever.
>
>
> -strandjs
>
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Tim Rosenberg wrote:
>
>> John,
>> Thanks for the nod. I like the thread.  Also thanks to Paul for
>> attending our NYC CTF event and running an excellent Red Cell as
>> always.
>>
>> These suggestions are all very good.  One thing I would offer up.
>> We have the Cyber Dawn event in October in VA.  It would be great to
>> have a professional defense team there to show/document/demonstrate
>> how to lock down a system/network and monitor it.  One of the great
>> suggestions from the NYC event was that there needed to be a Defense
>> Coach...just like the role Larry played in Vegas.  I frankly
>> couldn’t agree more.
>>
>> I see the note about apache and windows...time to trade up some of
>> the defensive assets too.
>>
>> One of the things I would ask the defender community.  One of the
>> difficult things in designing these exercises is the creation of a
>> series of functional network services that are realistic and yet
>> vulnerable.  Rather than turning this into a patch game where the
>> fastest keyboard wins, the feedback I’m getting from participants is
>> to provide more of a leg up for the defenders.  This needs to be
>> balanced against a diverse skill set of Red Cell, some of whom are
>> professional pen testers, others are running metasploit for the
>> first time.  So here’s some thoughts, please feel free to criticize.
>> Providing a ‘test network’; an unprotected unpatched network that is
>> unstaffed by humans.  This would be used as a test net for new Red
>> Cell to cut their teeth on tools prior to going against the human
>> defended networks.  The down side to this is that by the time
>> they’ve played around, the holes they exploited on the Test Net will
>> most certainly be closed by the humans.
>> Provide unpatched ‘legacy systems’ that cannot be updated by the
>> defenders.  These low hanging fruit targets would be only one or two
>> systems inside the defenders’ networks.  It would provide an easy
>> target for the Red Cell, but for them to further exploit the
>> network, they would have to know how to pivot really well.
>> Defender challenges; I would welcome an opportunity to connect to
>> the larger community and ask for help in building systems that may
>> only have one way in.  Preferably through a single less known or
>> more difficult vulnerability.  For example, Paul has consistently
>> found a way into the Debian boxes we use.  However, he only get
>> limited user access as there is nothing installed to support local
>> privilege escalation.
>> Cheers,
>> Tim Rosenberg
>>
>>
>> On 7/28/09 11:29 PM, "John Strand" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Time to bring Tim in on this.
>>>
>>> The White Wolf guys are simply the best at this kind of simulation.
>>>
>>> Tim, care to throw in your two cents?
>>>
>>> john
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 28, 2009, at 5:53 PM, Tim Mugherini wrote:
>>>
>>>> All Good Suggestions. To answer Erik's question on scoring per my
>>>> experience last week at the NYC CTF.
>>>>
>>>> Red Team members were required to run a script on the comrpomised
>>>> system once it was compromised to gain a point for the hack. They
>>>> were encouraged to take data but no DDOS were allowed. However,
>>>> they could take down systems towards the end of the day (although
>>>> they would not getting points for doing so but the blue team would
>>>> gain points for systems down - more points are bad for blue).
>>>>
>>>> Blue Team Members with the lowest score won. They needed to keep
>>>> systems and services online. If compromised they could regain
>>>> (subtract some points) if they were able to get the systems online
>>>> quickly and accurately report data loss to the FBI field office.
>>>> (Paul and Renald actually did a good job destroying the team that
>>>> won but because they were able to restore and start over (DR) they
>>>> regained their lead.
>>>>
>>>> So with that said while tools (both preventative and reactive)
>>>> would certainly help the blue team, I think the most important
>>>> thing is to be organized, have a plan, have the expertise (one
>>>> person for linux, one for windows, one for web apps/databases, and
>>>> one for networking), and know when to say we are screwed lets
>>>> implement our DR plan. And ss Erik pointed out lock down the
>>>> systems!
>>>>
>>>> Some command line and gooyee tools could certainly have helped
>>>> with this but would be no substitute for experience and
>>>> organization. Scripting command line stuff and GPO's would
>>>> certainly help in a large environment (have quite of bit of
>>>> experience there) but in an exercise like this it may just slow a
>>>> team down (better to do it manually since there were only a
>>>> handful of systems).
>>>>
>>>> So AV, log monitoring, best practices (i.e. all of Erik's
>>>> preventative suggestions and more), and things like TCSTools
>>>> switchblade for incident response would all be helpful. I'm
>>>> wondering if the questions of what tools is the right question.
>>>> Maybe the question is what best practices?
>>>>
>>>> Just My 2 1/2 cents.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Erik Harrison
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> beyond a lot of the great reactive or visibility driven
>>>>> suggestions already provided, and assuming this is in a lab
>>>>> environment (i hope) - harden the crap out of the server.
>>>>> standard fare, remove/disable unnecessary services, change
>>>>> default service accounts to low priv. add manual ntfs permissions
>>>>> across the filesystem *and registry* to limit that account's
>>>>> access. patch the os, apps, services, any web software (just
>>>>> assuming they're gonna give you joomla w/ 1500 plugins and
>>>>> modules to make it utterly impossible to win). move db passwords
>>>>> in the code into an included file ../ out of the main web
>>>>> directory, deny writes to all web directories for the duration of
>>>>> the scenario so no webshells can be uploaded, fix outbound
>>>>> connections at the firewall (host and upstream), switch services
>>>>> to listen only on 127.0.0.1, blah blah blah.. the list goes on
>>>>>
>>>>> how are you measuring successful intrusion? what's the jackpot
>>>>> for red? you could just be a bastard, and move or delete that
>>>>> file :D lock it away in a truecrypt volume protected by keys and
>>>>> passphrases.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Tim Mugherini <[email protected]
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> Very Nice. Does Autopatcher allow you to manually copy over
>>>>>> patches (already have many downloaded)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To add some:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again Sysinternals Tools: Process Monitor, PSTools, TCPView
>>>>>> Kiwi Syslog Server & Viewer or comparable, Mandiant Highlighter
>>>>>> Nessus - Home Feed of course
>>>>>> Dumpsec - NTFS File Permission dumper
>>>>>> Your favorite free sniffer - Wireshark, etc..
>>>>>> MRTG - Router bandwidth monitoring
>>>>>> AVG or other decent free AV
>>>>>> Snort
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Carlos Perez
>>>>>> <[email protected]
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 8 GB stick  prepared with autopatcher
>>>>>>> http://www.autopatcher.com/http://www.autopatcher.com/
>>>>>>>  I would have patches for all versions of windows.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  <http://www.autopatcher.com/> I would also place portable
>>>>>>> firefox, and xamp in case i need to migrate an apache LAMP
>>>>>>> server to an updated version since I have seen a trend of
>>>>>>> putting apache on windows in this competition, also place
>>>>>>> several pre-made security templates for use with GPO or local
>>>>>>> application, URLscan installer and pre-made urlscan.ini files.
>>>>>>> Komodo free firewall installer and the NSA cisco templates, acl
>>>>>>> templates, Nipper for checking the cisco equipment config
>>>>>>> quickly and some pvaln sample configs. Keepass for password
>>>>>>> storage and generation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that is what comes now to mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 8:54 AM, John Strand
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please! PSW land! Share your Blue Team tactics!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What tools, scripts, and techniques do you use as part of
>>>>>>>> Incident Response and Blue Team Activities?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have sat in on one to many Red/Blue/CTF games where the Red
>>>>>>>> team gets Core, Canvas, Metasploit, Nessus, Satan, Sara, Cain
>>>>>>>> and Able, Ettercap, Dsniff, Hydra, 0phcrack, Nmap, BT4 and
>>>>>>>> various torture techniques (including IronGeek's rubber hoses)
>>>>>>>> and the the Blue team gets....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "An un-patched Windows 2000 box and a slew of un-patched
>>>>>>>> software!!!!!''
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please see the following video for reference:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y77n--Af1qo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yea..  Thats right.... As of today the Blue Team is what you
>>>>>>>> get assigned to when you are caught stuffing peas up your nose.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This stops today!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are a few rules.  Tricks and scripts must be able to run
>>>>>>>> at the command line of your operating system of choice and all
>>>>>>>> tools must be freeware or open source.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thats it!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look, the Blue Team can rock!!!  So please share your tricks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am going to collect and add to them so we have a solid list
>>>>>>>> and this will serve as the playbook for the Blues going forward.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Be expecting this on the PDC site soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> strandjs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>  Pauldotcom mailing list
>>>>>>>>  [email protected]
>>>>>>>>  http://mail.pauldotcom.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pauldotcom
>>>>>>>>  Main Web Site: http://pauldotcom.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>  Pauldotcom mailing list
>>>>>>>  [email protected]
>>>>>>>  http://mail.pauldotcom.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pauldotcom
>>>>>>>  Main Web Site: http://pauldotcom.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>  Pauldotcom mailing list
>>>>>>  [email protected]
>>>>>>  http://mail.pauldotcom.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pauldotcom
>>>>>>  Main Web Site: http://pauldotcom.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>  Pauldotcom mailing list
>>>>>  [email protected]
>>>>>  http://mail.pauldotcom.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pauldotcom
>>>>>  Main Web Site: http://pauldotcom.com
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> Pauldotcom mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> http://mail.pauldotcom.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pauldotcom
>>>> Main Web Site: http://pauldotcom.com
>>>
>>>
>
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

______________________________________
Jack Daniel, Reluctant CISSP
http://twitter.com/jack_daniel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackadaniel
http://blog.uncommonsensesecurity.com
_______________________________________________
Pauldotcom mailing list
[email protected]
http://mail.pauldotcom.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pauldotcom
Main Web Site: http://pauldotcom.com

Reply via email to