Well, it is a requirement, for both governments, but it's based on the notion 
that you could have a device that is interfering but not a whole class of 
devices.  This can occur for a number of reasons including antenna modification.

Brian



 -----Original Message-----
From:   Stephen Farrell [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent:   Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:25 AM Eastern Standard Time
To:     [email protected]
Cc:     [email protected]
Subject:        Re: [paws] wondering why a device identifier is needed (was: 
Re: Threat model (Rev 3))


Hi Scott,

On 02/04/2012 02:03 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A couple of motivations for device-specific identifiers are
> * ability to black-list or disable a specific device. Regulators are
> interested in ability to switch off a device that causes interference.

So a) that's a "regulator says" response and b) is that really
specific to an individual device instance or not rather more
likely to be something done to a device-type? (I don't know, but
would be surprised to hear manufacturing leads to such variability
such that turning off just one device is useful enough to justify
the costs.)

 > Device manufacturers are interested in ability to switch off stolen
 > devices.

> * ability to directly address a specific device. One example here is the
> 'kill switch' described by Ofcom.

Neither of the above seem to be very paws-like though, what
have those features got to do with whitespace?

They also seem to implicitly assume some way to correlate that
identifier across a whole bunch of protocols and only seem
relevant to certain business models and not others.

And of course, if the so-called "kill switch" is really a
"pretty please kill yourself switch" then we're into the land
of pretense as well.

Gotta say I'm only really seeing "the FCC said so" here.

S


>
> Kind Regards,
> Scott
>
>
> On 2/3/12 7:43 PM, "ext Paul Lambert"<[email protected]>  wrote:
>
>>
>> Good question.
>>
>> If a set of certified devices (vendor / model type) are all supposed to
>> act the same, then any interference problem could be handled by changing
>> contours or blocking all of the model/types.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>>> Stephen Farrell
>>> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:43 PM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: [paws] wondering why a device identifier is needed (was: Re:
>>> Threat model (Rev 3))
>>>
>>>
>>> So this is a bit of a side-issue maybe but I do wonder
>>> if there's any functional/technical reason, other than
>>> "the FCC said so," to identify a specific device in the
>>> paws protocol with a long-lived identifier?
>>>
>>> I can see why you'd want a device type of some sort,
>>> and the DB might need some kind of session ID, but
>>> I don't get the long-lived device identifier thing
>>> at all as a functional requirement. Can anyone explain?
>>>
>>> I'm not asking now from the privacy or security p-o-v,
>>> but rather because its easier and cheaper and simpler to
>>> not bother if you don't have to.
>>>
>>> It does also interact with privacy&  security of course.
>>> Once you have to manage the identifier then you may need
>>> to go to some trouble to protect that, but that's a
>>> secondary question.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> S.
>>>
>>> On 02/03/2012 11:19 PM, Paul Lambert wrote:
>>>>> using it themselves or retransmitting it.  The resulting data one
>>>>> whitespace availability will be visible to people and or devices
>>> which
>>>>> are not completely controlled by the regulatory agencies.
>>>>> As such, what is the role of confidentiality with regard to this
>>>>> information?
>>>>
>>>> All channel availability (at least for the FCC) is openly available.
>>> There is no threat of disclosure of this information.  It's actually the
>>> reverse.  For planning purposes to buy and use WS devices - you really
>>> would like a good picture of available spectrum.  It would be very
>>> detremental to market adoption to limit access to the available
>>> channels.
>>>>
>>>> That said - the current incumbants we discuss are just TV and
>>> microphones.  In the future, we might be sharing with public saftey or
>>> military applications that would not want readily accessable maps of
>>> their locations disseminated.  "Open" consumer devices might in these
>>> scenarios see no spectrum and the approved devices would get
>>> allocations.  This still should be out-of-scope.  These types of devices
>>> are not in our use case scenarios.
>>>>
>>>> Privacy as you point out alone is a good justification for some form
>>> of confidentiality.  But protecting a devices identity may not require
>>> encryption of the full paws messages.
>>>>
>>>> Intgrity and data origin authentication seem more important for the
>>> protocol design considerations.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>>>> Joel M. Halpern
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 11:51 AM
>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>> Cc: [email protected]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [paws] Threat model (Rev 3)
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we please include in this document some articulation of the
>>>>> confidentiality assumption we are making with regard to the
>>> whitespace
>>>>> data itself?  I am not trying to object to the threats.  (And the
>>>>> personal information collection issues are enough to jsutify include
>>>>> confidentiality mechanisms in the solutions.)
>>>>> But I am still trying to get my head around this.  There are going to
>>> be
>>>>> hoards of whitespace devices.  They will be getting the data, and
>>> either
>>>>> using it themselves or retransmitting it.  The resulting data one
>>>>> whitespace availability will be visible to people and or devices
>>> which
>>>>> are not completely controlled by the regulatory agencies.
>>>>> As such, what is the role of confidentiality with regard to this
>>>>> information?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours,
>>>>> Joel
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/3/2012 2:34 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Below is Rev 3 of the threat model based on feedback from Stephen,
>>>>> Nancy
>>>>>> and Gabor (Thanks).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Raj
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rev 3 (3/2/12)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Threat model for the PAWS protocol
>>>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Assumptions:
>>>>>> ............
>>>>>>
>>>>>> o It is assumed that an attacker has full access to the network
>>> medium
>>>>>>      between the master device and the white space database. The
>>>>> attacker
>>>>>>      may be able to eavesdrop on any communications between these
>>>>>>      entities. The link between the master device and the white space
>>>>>>      database can be wired or wireless and provides IP connectivity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> o It is assumed that the master device or the white space database
>>>>>>      have NOT been compromised from a security standpoint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Threat 1: User modifies a device to masquerade as another valid
>>>>>>           certified device
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           The master device needs to authenticate itself with the
>>> white
>>>>>>           space database prior to requesting channel information. The
>>>>>>           attacker may try to get access to the secrets of the master
>>>>>>           device which can be used maliciously. The effect of such an
>>>>>>           attack being successful would result in a malicious client
>>>>>>           replaying the stolen authentication/authorization secrets
>>> to a
>>>>>>           white space database.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Threat 2: Spoofed white space database
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           A master device discovers a white space database(s) thru
>>> which
>>>>>>           it can query for channel information. The master device
>>> needs
>>>>>>           to ensure that the white space database with which it
>>>>>>           communicates with is an authentic entity. The white space
>>>>>>           database needs to provide its identity to the master device
>>>>>>           which can confirm the validity/authenticty of the database.
>>> An
>>>>>>           attacker may attempt to spoof a white space database and
>>>>>>           provide responses to a master device which are malicious
>>> and
>>>>>>           result in the master device causing interference to the
>>>>> primary
>>>>>>           user of the spectrum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Threat 3: Modifying a query request
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           An attacker may modify the query request sent by a master
>>>>>>           device to a white space database. The attacker may change
>>> the
>>>>>>           location of the device or the capabilities in terms of its
>>>>>>           transmit power or antenna height etc. which could result in
>>>>> the
>>>>>>           database responding with incorrect information about
>>> available
>>>>>>           channels or max transmit power allowed. The result of such
>>> an
>>>>>>           attack is that the master device would cause intereference
>>> to
>>>>>>           the primary user of the spectrum. It could also result in a
>>>>>>           denial of service to the master device by indicating that
>>> no
>>>>>>           channels are available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Threat 4: Modifying a query response
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           An attacker could modify the query response sent by the
>>> white
>>>>>>           space database to a master device. The channel information
>>> or
>>>>>>           transmit power allowed type of parameters carried in the
>>>>>>           response could be modified by the attacker resulting in the
>>>>>>           master device using channels that are not available at a
>>>>>>           location or transmitting at a greater power level than
>>> allowed
>>>>>>           resulting in interference to the primary user of that
>>>>>>           spectrum. Alternatively the attacker may indicate no
>>> channel
>>>>>>           availability at a location resulting in a denial of service
>>> to
>>>>>>           the master device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Threat 5: Unauthorized use of channels by an uncertified device
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           An attacker may be a master device which is not certified
>>> for
>>>>>>           use by the relevant regulatory body. The attacker may
>>> listen
>>>>> to
>>>>>>           the communication between a valid master device and white
>>>>> space
>>>>>>           database and utilize the information about available
>>> channels
>>>>>>           in the response message by utilizing those channels. The
>>>>> result
>>>>>>           of such an attack is unauthorized use of channels by a
>>> master
>>>>>>           device which is not certified to operate.
>>>>>>           The master device querying the white space database may be
>>>>>>           operated by a law-enforcement agency and the communications
>>>>>>           between the device and the database are intended to be kept
>>>>>>           private. A malicious device should not be able to eavesdrop
>>> on
>>>>>>           such communications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Threat 6: Third party tracking of white space device location and
>>>>> identity
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           A white space database may require a master device to
>>> provide
>>>>>>           its identity in addition to its location in the query
>>> request.
>>>>>>           Such location/identity information can be gleaned by an
>>>>>>           eavesdropper. A master device may prefer to keep the
>>>>>>           location/identity information secret. Hence the protocol
>>>>> should
>>>>>>           provide a means to protect the location and identity
>>>>>>           information of the master device and prevent tracking of
>>>>>>           locations associated with a white space database. If
>>>>>>           regulations do not require the identity of the master
>>> device
>>>>> to
>>>>>>           be provided to the white space database, the master is not
>>>>>>           required to include its identity in the query.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Threat 7: Termination of device service for reasons other than
>>>>>>           incumbent protection
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           A white space database may include a mechanism by which
>>>>> service
>>>>>>           and channels allocated to a master device can be revoked. A
>>>>>>           malicious node can send a revoke message to a master
>>>>>>           device. This results in denial of service to the master
>>>>>>           device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> paws mailing list
>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> paws mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> paws mailing list
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>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> paws mailing list
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>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [email protected]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>
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