Comrades, My observation is that we are loosing hope in the PAC and in efforts to resuscitate it. I hardly see any engagement and possible strategies to get the party right. Little engagement has come forth to interrogate submissions made by cde's Matome Mashao, Nkrumah Kgagudi, Siya Ndamane and cde Ndima.
We can't comrades give up on this gigantic movement. History will judge us harshly if we don't play our role in getting our movement right in our forward march to liberate our land and our people. Asingapheli amandla dear comrades. Izwe lethu! Kwame Ndebele Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! -----Original Message----- From: Mbulelo Raymond <mrfihl...@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 18:08:34 To: <kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za> Cc: <d...@pac.org.za>; <bulanng...@gmail.com>; MoAfrica wa Azania<moafr...@vodamail.co.za>; Keith Moyce<ke...@nyaleti.co.za>; Malinge Plaatjie<malingeplaat...@yahoo.com>; Lucas Masemola<masemola.b...@gmail.com>; m...@pac.org.za<m...@pac.org.za>; karabo mokgojwa<km.mokgo...@gmail.com>; pasmapresid...@gmail.com<pasmapresid...@gmail.com>; Solly Hlubi<hlubi.so...@gmail.com>; danielmamony...@gmail.com<danielmamony...@gmail.com>; KHOISAN SONTI<khoi.so...@gmail.com>; Cape<paccapeme...@webmail.co.za>; Siyabulela Ndamane<sndam...@gmail.com>; <payco@googlegroups.com>; Babalwa Malawu<babesmal...@gmail.com>; nol...@nactu.org.za<nol...@nactu.org.za>; zun...@tut.ac.za<zun...@tut.ac.za>; legalu...@sacwu.co.za<legalu...@sacwu.co.za>; <manaopane7...@nokiamail.com>; clementmar...@yahoo.com<clementmar...@yahoo.com>; kgothatso sithole<kgothatso.sith...@yahoo.com>; gemoanako...@webmail.co.za<gemoanako...@webmail.co.za>; nnyq...@gmail.com<nnyq...@gmail.com>; sindi mbele<jntab...@gmail.com>; tsatsawani chauke<tkchauke.cha...@gmail.com>; <zozoj...@yahoo.com>; Dimakatso Moletsane<bafana.phu...@hotmail.com>; Maciej Radzio<rad...@gmail.com>; Mofihli Likotsi<urf....@gmail.com>; Excellent Rikhotso<excellentrikho...@gmail.com>; SELLO IRVIN LESABANE<scal...@hotmail.com>; Lucas Mmola<lucasmmol...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: blame game same as pretending to be normal is not helping Sone of the soil, these questions you are raising are fundamental. I wish the distribution could be wide enough to reach every PAC member. These are questions that must be asked and answered in every PAC gathering, whether at branch, regional, provincial and national levels. Thank you poqo Fihla On 18 Aug 2014 4:45 PM, "Linda Ndebele" <kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za> wrote: > Greetings comrades, > > The critical questions we must all respond to, is how do we get PAC right? > How do we collectively own up to our contribution to the current state of > the party? How do we unite PAC before uniting with EFF and other leftist > parties? How do we rebuild the image of PAC and its structures? How do we > make PAC relevant to our people? How do we eradicate factionalism without > destroying this party? How do we utilize the cream of leadership we have > produced over the years for the benefit of the party? How do we make > parliamentary and councillor seats work for the party not against the > party? How do we develop a uniting national Programme of Action? How do we > utilize our diverse talents to harness our party? How do we get out of the > leadership struggle maze? How do we position ourselves for state power? How > do we propose to sell our policy positions to the masses of our people? How > do we propose to be a vanguard of our people in their protestes and > demonstrations against government? How do we plan to proactively deal with > bread and butter issues confronting our people? How do we plan to partner > with the trade union movement in their daily struggles? How do we reconcile > differing factions within the party? > > These are some of the challenges I believe we must begin to speak to if we > are really serious about rebuilding PAC. > > I am inviting robust debate in this regard. > > Izwe lethu! > > Kwame > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > ------------------------------ > *From: * Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <nrkgag...@gmail.com> > *Sender: * payco@googlegroups.com > *Date: *Sat, 9 Aug 2014 18:00:41 +0200 > *To: *Siyabulela Ndamane<sndam...@gmail.com> > *ReplyTo: * payco@googlegroups.com > *Cc: *MoAfrica wa Azania<moafr...@vodamail.co.za>; tsatsawani chauke< > tkchauke.cha...@gmail.com>; d...@pac.org.za<d...@pac.org.za>; > bulanng...@gmail.com<bulanng...@gmail.com>; Mofihli Likotsi< > urf....@gmail.com>; Keith Moyce<ke...@nyaleti.co.za>; KHOISAN SONTI< > khoi.so...@gmail.com>; Solly Hlubi<hlubi.so...@gmail.com>; Lucas Mmola< > lucasmmol...@gmail.com>; m...@pac.org.za<m...@pac.org.za>; < > zozoj...@yahoo.com>; kgothatso sithole<kgothatso.sith...@yahoo.com>; > pasmapresid...@gmail.com<pasmapresid...@gmail.com>; > danielmamony...@gmail.com<danielmamony...@gmail.com>; SELLO IRVIN > LESABANE<scal...@hotmail.com>; Dimakatso Moletsane< > bafana.phu...@hotmail.com>; sindi mbele<jntab...@gmail.com>; > nol...@nactu.org.za<nol...@nactu.org.za>; Malinge Plaatjie< > malingeplaat...@yahoo.com>; karabo mokgojwa<km.mokgo...@gmail.com>; > legalu...@sacwu.co.za<legalu...@sacwu.co.za>; zun...@tut.ac.za< > zun...@tut.ac.za>; Cape<paccapeme...@webmail.co.za>; < > manaopane7...@nokiamail.com>; clementmar...@yahoo.com< > clementmar...@yahoo.com>; Excellent Rikhotso<excellentrikho...@gmail.com>; > nnyq...@gmail.com<nnyq...@gmail.com>; gemoanako...@webmail.co.za< > gemoanako...@webmail.co.za>; Mbulelo Raymond<mrfihl...@gmail.com>; > Babalwa Malawu<babesmal...@gmail.com>; Lucas Masemola< > masemola.b...@gmail.com>; Maciej Radzio<rad...@gmail.com>; Mapula Nkoana< > mapulankoan...@gmail.com>; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com< > joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com>; celenjabulo...@gmail.com< > celenjabulo...@gmail.com>; Sbusiso Xaba<sbusiso.x...@gmail.com>; > Mangaliso Mdhlela<mangalisomdhl...@gmail.com>; np...@mweb.co.za< > np...@mweb.co.za>; Mohlomphegi Mphahlele<mphah...@gmail.com>; > p...@vodamail.co.za<p...@vodamail.co.za>; Dumisani Zwane< > dumisani...@gmail.com>; <mnyhon...@yahoo.com>; Lehlogonolo Digashu< > digashuma...@gmail.com>; Dr. Motsoko Pheko< > drmotsokoph...@drmotsokopheko.com>; Dumisani Mkhwente<lamzi...@gmail.com>; > headoff...@sacwu.org.za<headoff...@sacwu.org.za>; <kan...@sedibeng.gov.za>; > Mphiri Masoga<mphi...@gmail.com>; nyalu...@live.co.za<nyalu...@live.co.za>; > mose...@sacwu.co.za<mose...@sacwu.co.za>; zweli cele< > zwelic...@webmail.co.za>; Nkosinathi Mngoma<mngomankosina...@yahoo.com>; > Albert Mokoena<mokoen...@workmail.co.za>; Metja Ledwaba< > mkledw...@yahoo.com>; ki...@pac.org.za<ki...@pac.org.za>; < > mashao.reu...@gmail.com>; isa...@diplomatsa.co.za<isa...@diplomatsa.co.za>; > <jtrimblefam...@hotmail.com>; Vusumuzi Silaule<silaule...@gmail.com>; > frambo...@gmail.com<frambo...@gmail.com>; Tebogo Masipa<g...@nactu.org.za>; > Narius Moloto<s...@pac.org.za>; <mphahl...@gmail.com>; bc...@netactive.co.za > <bc...@netactive.co.za>; <sndam...@pac-cape.org.za>; > nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com<nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com>; Ndade Mxunya< > mnd...@yahoo.com>; Michael Muendane<m...@soultalk.co.za>; < > victor.serakal...@dcs.gov.za>; pasma.gaut...@gmail.com< > pasma.gaut...@gmail.com>; <pasikanontsh...@gmail.com>; le...@pac.org.za< > le...@pac.org.za>; nufbw...@wbs.co.za<nufbw...@wbs.co.za>; Tebogo Sekele< > fina...@bcawu.co.za>; Ali Maphalala<ali.maphal...@gmail.com>; Billiard > Seth<billiard.s...@gmail.com>; Smoll Zondo<smollzo...@gmail.com>; Zola > Nyamela<znyam...@gmail.com>; ms...@webmail.co.za<ms...@webmail.co.za>; > pac gauteng<pacgaut...@gmail.com>; <kutie.thondl...@gmail.com>; jabu > mkhwanazi<8302jabumkhwan...@gmail.com>; Malesela Mogashwa< > icuworkersun...@gmail.com>; MXOLISI MAISELA<maisela...@gmail.com>; sandla > goqwana<goqwana.san...@gmail.com>; Sbu Fire<sbufir...@gmail.com>; > mphahlel...@amcu.co.za<mphahlel...@amcu.co.za>; Tumediso Modise< > tumimod...@hotmail.co.za>; fortune.speng...@gmail.com< > fortune.speng...@gmail.com>; richardma...@yahoo.com<richardma...@yahoo.com>; > mop...@pac.org.za<mop...@pac.org.za>; Lindo Thando<lindo920...@gmail.com>; > Tume Molomo<rako...@tut.ac.za>; <malingeplaa...@yahoo.com>; Edward > Thobejane<mthobej...@mewusa.org.za>; miles.ndl...@yahoo.com< > miles.ndl...@yahoo.com>; BONOLO TSHEGO<melloasa...@gmail.com>; L > Lekgwathi<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; Thabo cyril Zwane<tz65...@gmail.com>; > Moshe Mahlomola<moshemahlom...@gmail.com>; L.R. Mbinda<mbind...@gmail.com>; > ntsiemohl...@gmail.com<ntsiemohl...@gmail.com>; Innocentia Mamaila< > inono....@gmail.com>; Pinkie Monyane<monyanepin...@gmail.com>; < > payco@googlegroups.com>; pac.nc...@gmail.com<pac.nc...@gmail.com>; < > bjz.tsote...@gmail.com>; Jabulani Mothopeng<jabumo...@gmail.com>; > Wandisile Gajana<wgaj...@gmail.com>; Xola Tyamzashe<tyamza...@yahoo.com>; > pacaza...@webmail.co.za<pacaza...@webmail.co.za>; INNOCENT FRIDAY< > inno....@gmail.com>; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com<takalaniligeg...@gmail.com>; > Sbongiseni Ayanda<jxi...@gmail.com>; phillip Dhlamini< > phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com>; <phumzile.msw...@yohoo.com>; > dud...@webmail.co.za<dud...@webmail.co.za>; Madosky Obama< > madoskyob...@yahoo.com>; <isaa...@diplomat-global.com>; ic...@telkomsa.net > <ic...@telkomsa.net>; Obakeng Jacobs<obakengjac...@yahoo.com>; > brian.gam...@unioinlife.co.za<brian.gam...@unioinlife.co.za>; Fumanile > Ben<fbdywilibe...@gmail.com>; Vusi .Mahlangu<vemahla...@gmail.com>; > sduduzo andiswa<asdud...@gmail.com>; Xola Tyamzashe<xola...@gmail.com>; > po...@yahoo.com<po...@yahoo.com>; ifm10...@iscor.com<ifm10...@iscor.com>; > PAC TSHWANE<pactshwanereg...@gmail.com>; butheyane mary serunye< > butheyanemseu...@gmail.com>; <kidi.bolelw...@gmail.com>; Admin @ Pac< > ad...@pac.org.za>; tumelo tele<violet.t...@yahoo.com>; p...@npswu.org.co.za > <p...@npswu.org.co.za>; hlatshwayonhlakanipho< > hlatshwayonhlakani...@yahoo.com>; patrick.khum...@ekurhuleni.gov.za< > patrick.khum...@ekurhuleni.gov.za>; Lejoni John Kekana< > lejonikek...@gmail.com>; generalsecret...@mwasa.org.za< > generalsecret...@mwasa.org.za>; gabula.j...@webmail.com< > gabula.j...@webmail.com>; Alton Mphethi<i...@bataufc.com>; > hoteli...@iburst.co.za<hoteli...@iburst.co.za>; ad...@fedcraw.org.za< > ad...@fedcraw.org.za>; Nhlanhla Fortune Xaba<nfx...@gmail.com>; > mafub...@hotmail.com<mafub...@hotmail.com>; david mabitsela< > mabitselada...@gmail.com>; inqubelaphambili.tradeun...@gmail.com< > inqubelaphambili.tradeun...@gmail.com>; Mohlomphegi Mphahlele< > mphah...@eskom.co.za>; MOALOHANE SOLOMON NTSUSENG<ntsusen...@gmail.com>; > eddie mfulwane<rammymfulw...@gmail.com>; Johnson Mlambo< > river.mla...@telkomsa.net>; PAC Mogale city PAC<pacmogalec...@gmail.com>; > ndhlo...@pac.org.za<ndhlo...@pac.org.za>; Phumzile Nomnga< > phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za>; Willy Fokane<fokanewi...@gmail.com>; < > mrfihl...@webmail.co.za>; esei...@fedcraw.org.za<esei...@fedcraw.org.za>; > nombule...@webmail.com<nombule...@webmail.com>; justice mvakali< > mvakalijust...@gmail.com> > *Subject: *[PAYCO] Re: blame game same as pretending to be normal is not > helping > > M'Afrika Siya > > There are no neutral PAC members and PAC members not supporting the two > feuding, now three feuding NEC groupings can't be defined as neutral. > > We have maintained that the an inclusive PAC conference composed of all > PAC Branches and members is crucial to resolve the prevailing political and > organisational parallysis. > > The entire Butterworth elected NEC must report and account to members in > an inclusive national conference of PAC aiming to forge Party Unity. We > know thus far, that PAC branches and members were misled and again turned > to fight against each, as the PAC disintegrate organisationally and become > politically insignificant as matters stand today! > > Also, we have advocated inclusove regional and provincial conferences > organised mainly to forge unity among PAC branches and members. > > To root out factionalism, we also advocated and urged that PAC member and > branches should denounce and boycot meetings organised to deepen internal > party feuding and drive factional interests. > > We urged PAC branches and members to unite and embrace PAC Constitution > and Disciplinary code to to serve as the principled basis for unity and > political work. > > Lastly, PAC branches and members should integrate their structures's > political work in the daily struggles waged by African workers and their > respective communities, so as to build PAC's mass based character on > socialist programme! > > Generalisation has its own basic flaws, for it tends to combine genuine > PAC members's omissions with deployed moles/agents, hence one has a serious > difficulty with such an analysis and approach! > > Shango lashu > Nkrumah > On 8 Aug 2014 16:18, "Siyabulela Ndamane" <sndam...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> My dear comrades, >> >> In my view the weakness of any decision taken in any platform is that if >> the majority supports it - it becomes the order of the day irrespective of >> whether it is correct or not . . . this is the unfortunate reality and this >> problem is not unique to the PAC it is the problem of decision making ! >> >> If I may take all the decisions and actions taken by the organization >> since unban todate, this unfortunate reality has happened ! What give >> effect to such decisions is that in the PAC those who differ with such a >> decision becomes despondent, withdraws from active political work and those >> who implement the decisions becomes vendettas in settling scores against >> those who opposed/differed on views. >> >> This weakness has bred ground for careerists and opportunists amongst >> ourselves within the ranks of the organ. . .off couse there are other >> contributing factors to the weaknesses of the organization. >> >> Between 1990 - 1996 *intimidation* was the tool used to force decisions >> in the Congress/Conference floor, the submission of some branch delegates >> to this intimidation was the sign of weaknesses on our part as individual >> persons and/or as branch representatives and branches themselves. I won't >> dwell much on the tangible facts of this argument most of you knows. . . >> e.g. the Revolutionary Watchdogs persistent criticism of the direction >> taken by the leadership did not sway the actions of the leadership - the >> decision to suspend armed-struggle was resisted then what - the pro and >> anti 1994 Elections chaos . . .with all the efforts to resist at the end of >> the day the leadership and decisions remained whether we liked them or not >> ! and most of all there were branches who supported and accepted the >> decision of the leadership whether right or wrong. >> >> Yes, many people have since distanced themselves from the organization >> because of the above . . .but PAC remained though bleeding ! The current >> situation (2006 - 2014) is not different from [(1990 - 1996) and (1996 - >> 2006)], the organizational and administrative machinery has been collapsing >> - the decision making process and implementation of those decisions has not >> improved - the branches and structures became more weak and some >> non-existent ! Between 1996 - 2000 it was Mogoba-Makwetu problems; 2000 - >> 2003 internal NEC problems; 2003 - 2006 the 'Talibans' and internal NEC >> differences; 2006 - 2014 internal NEC problems, Letlapa the 2 decrees; PAC >> Convention (cape town) & INDABA (soweto), Butterworth Congress; explusion >> of Letlapa and councillors; internal NEC problems and Mphethi decree. All >> this happens with the support of some branches in both opposing directions. >> >> Each opposing side always has a reason to argue the correcteness of their >> view and actions . . .we have seen this since 1990 todate, therefore the >> blame-game is not helping ! One can raise all correct arguments in his/her >> world-view blaming the otherside - the otherside can equally do the same. >> >> For as long we don't come together and accept that our >> individual/collective views can win-or-lose an argument at a certain point >> in time and in all that the organization has to be kept intact focused to >> the ultimate objectives, otherwise we must just forget that the PAC will >> ever come right we will be stuck-up in perpetual infinite fighting blaming >> each other. I say this because those who have defeated argument today will >> not cooperate positively in implementation with those who won the argument >> and it goes on-and-on ! ! ! >> >> One would think PAC Constitution will help but reality is otherwise we >> have been in-and-out of the Courts we have a pending Appeals Case as we >> speak that will be heard on 12 November 2014; the opposing views will >> always interpret the constitution in the manner that suits their line of >> argument and the legal establishments takes even longer to rule over these >> constitutional disputes depending on how the legal arguments were presented. >> >> Understanding that going to courts was not a desirable action to all of >> us, but even those who did not take this route could not save the situation >> either, they become neutralists that attacks both opposing groupings >> without ever moving the organization forward. So at the end of the day we >> all lose the PAC lose because the opposing groupings will be on each others >> throat until structures collapse while those who claim to be neutral will >> be analysing and attacking those in the feud without real help in shaping >> the collapsing structure of the organization, I am not taking away the >> good, correct analysis and practical solutions that they suggest but they >> are always dismissed by those in the position of power in the >> administration as this grouping some of the time they are members not in >> goodstanding . . .if you are not in goodstanding it does not matter how >> good your views are they will remain in the pheriphery of the organization. >> >> There is a serious problem in the organization, I will deliberately not >> call it a 'crisis' as this may rub some of us the wrong way. We can't >> tolerate each other, we can't coexist with our different opinions, we are >> deliberate vendettas against each other, we are defiant in disregard of the >> organizational discipline, our fight is not yet open over contradicting >> ideo-political lines rather it is more on our individualistic egos and >> personal differences that we make them PAC problems, those who are in >> leadership sometimes deliberately sidelines, settle-scores with those who >> contested them, those who did not get leadership of their choice spend most >> of their time finding faults and undermine decisions of those in leadership. >> >> All organizations across the world always have groupings within with >> varying degrees of influence in the administrative direction of the >> organization. To have people with different opinions on how things should >> be is not unique to the PAC. All organizations have that in business, >> politics, community etc.. That should not amount to FACTIONALISM ! ! ! Yes >> sometimes we get agitated and angry on how things are done especially when >> the organizational erosion is happening at a high speed as we witness today. >> >> I therefore, kindly request all of us to *acknowledge that there is a >> problem* in the organization of PAC and without being vendettas & being >> defensive we must elect to *act collectively* in bringing stability, >> cohesion and direction in the PAC. Let us all come together as members of >> the organization put in place *concrete measures* that will ensure >> organizational problems faced by the PAC since 1959 are prevented from >> happening again that include the personal conduct of each member in >> rank-and-file and especially leadership as leaders should show some high >> level of maturity in person & politically and be the guide to the >> rank-and-file and the Nation at large. >> >> . . . .blaming each other at this juncture is not helping the PAC. Yes! >> many of us in the leadership and rank-and-file has done wrong things for so >> long in the name of building PAC, with the current state of affairs in the >> organization no-one can claim to have achieved any formidable progress in >> all our actions, the organization is bleeding. ONLY the anti PAC forces >> that can claim progress at this hour . . .as much as the anti PAC forces >> and infiltration to divert focus of the PAC will always be there, we have >> made the ground so fertile and easy for these forces to depeen divisions >> and expedite the total collapse of the organization of PAC. >> >> All of us we must accept differences, respect the need for criticism and >> self-criticism in the interest of the PAC and masses of our people. >> >> I am of a view that the need araise for the PAC to have all its members >> and structures fully subscribed and convene an INCLUSIVE Annual National >> Conference, should a need for the September 2014 Conference be postponed >> let it be postponed for later date and proper political work be done to >> ensure all structures (the aggrieved and the neutral) are on board. This >> particular Conference won't be the Electing Conference it must be the >> conference to correct all the wrongs and layout of a path that will take >> PAC to a proper electing National Conference with a clear Political Program >> to advance the struggle of our people. The mistake has been done whereby >> Congress/Conference it was in exclusion of other members who had hold a >> different opinion. In all fairness we can't repeat that again if we are >> really serious about the PAC and the struggle of the masses of our people. >> >> Amongst ourselves we have experienced old-guard and bright young minds >> who can be tasked to work as a collective doing that political work in >> bringing stability, cohesion in the organization with all structures on >> board (aggrieved and the neutral). >> >> You can ridicule and rubbish me on this point I won't lose any good night >> sleep but I am certain that 'ridicule' won't bring stability and cohesion >> in the PAC ! >> >> "Revolutionaries are not afraid of their own mistakes. They have the >> political courage to admit them publicly, because doing so means committing >> oneself to correcting them and doing better." - Thomas Sankara >> >> The decision of majority is not always right, same as the leadership is >> not always right, to be withdrawn being aggrieved and being neutral does >> not help the situation either . . .masinyamezelane bantwana bomgquba ! Lets >> work collectively to bring an end to the current mayhem. >> >> True leadership are those who are prepared to accept their mistakes and >> still turn back to correct them for the greater good of the organization >> and the Nation. >> >> Off cause this is my view it may not be the silver-bullet but it calls >> for a serious rethinking on how we do things . . . >> >> iAfrika >> SIYABULELA NDAMANE >> 083 790 6470 >> >> >> >> -- >> Siyabulela Ndamane >> mobile: 083 790 6470 >> fax: 086 603 6470 >> >> > -- > -- > Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com > > Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > > Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
