Comrade Nkrumah Theory is only good if it can address praxtical problems. You did explain how will your Bottom-up approach can solve current dilema in the Vaal. You did expolain why in Gaung there are two PAC rallIes whenever the Party commemorates important days in its calender if your apporoach works. You are two factions. That is clear. A united PAC in Gauteng is expected to hold one rally,, not two or more on the same day. May be there is lack of understanding of factions and factionalism here or defence of factionalism. That is another debate on its own.
On 12/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote: > Cde Chargein > > We run the risk to label everything and effort as a faction, please 1. > define and describe a faction. > > Secondly, it's evident we disagree on the approach to forge principled > unity. We advocate a Bottom-up approach which has proven itself to be most > effective to defactionalise, reconcile and forge unity in the PAC starting > from branch level leading to national level- national conference to > consolidate and create a PoA. Among many ingredients the bottom-Up approach > is Inclusive Branch and regional meetings to forge unity should be > facilitated by members accepted by such that the unification process is > credible and has integrity. A party unification process which is members > centred and members driven premised on the very same principle of > Democratic Centralism. > > As opposed to members who are highly factionalised meeting for the first > time at a national conference hoping to achieve unity in less 48 hours > national conference. > > Shango lashu > > On 12 Sep 2016 16:42, "Chargein Mabaso" <chargein...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Comrade Nkrumah >> >> >> >> The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The >> Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the >> dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on >> practice and in turn serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and >> Practice*]. Theory does not serve itself. The same applies to natural >> science and our current challenge to unite the PAC. That is, the >> correctness of the Top-up approach should be based on practice. Ours is >> to >> be put the Top-up approach on test through practice. >> >> >> >> Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The >> Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe (who >> belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting today >> that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to >> Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks >> and >> physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade >> Solundwane >> or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting without >> tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde >> Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and will >> be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions >> still >> have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because >> of >> the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President >> Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as it >> is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting >> is >> called by cde Nthate, President Mbinda or Moloto will also be invited to >> address the meeting as the PAC President or Secretary General. The same >> applies to President Maseko. He will address the meeting as a PAM >> President >> too. That will be confusion at its best, if not madness. >> >> >> >> All these comrades believe they were and are still correct in their views >> and acts. I personally believe our decision to form PAM was correct. I >> still maintain my views till now. I need to be told that it was wrong. >> The >> same is true for Pooe and Nthate. They also believe they were and are >> still >> right. Even you comrade Nkrumah you believe you were and are still >> correct >> in your own views and acts. That is why there is the need for a special >> conference or congress to iron out our differences, once and for all. We >> need to be brutal frank to each other We are not in a revolution to nurse >> each other’s egos and feelings. If we were all wrong we must be told in >> no >> uncertain terms to avoid the repeat of the same mistakes in the future. >> All >> these factions must admit they were wrong based on the PAC Basic >> Documents >> and be prepared to correct their attitudes and promise not to repeat the >> same mistakes again. To cover up our wrongdoings will be disservice to >> PAC >> and the revolution. We must all be prepared to take full responsibility >> for >> all our actions, not certain people. No one is exempted from making >> mistakes in the revolution. I want to see that day whose hands are clean >> in >> the current crisis. >> >> >> >> As revolutionaries, we must not afraid of criticism. Let’s practice what >> we preach. Those who are opposed to the conference or congress are scared >> of maximum self-criticism and criticism. They are afraid to to correct >> their mistakes and are prepared to repeat them. They are cowards who >> always >> want to appear clean. >> >> >> >> The Top-up approach will definitely complicate matters. Let’s accept it. >> >> >> >> Currently, PAM members have experienced strange treatment at all unity >> meetings organised at branch, regional and provincial level by any >> faction. >> They are told to first disband PAM before unity is discussed or >> recognised >> within the PAC. Funny enough, the same does not apply to PAC factions >> which >> are multiplying day by day. WHY? The reasons are those factions do not >> believe there is crisis within the PAC and those socalled unity talks are >> between PAM and one of the PAC factions, not between PAM and one, united >> PAC. It is either between PAM and Mphahlele’s faction or Mbinda’s faction >> or the new PAC faction formed, consciously or unconsciously, around >> Gauteng >> which normally have rallies around Soweto not attending rallies organised >> by Mbinda-Moloto’s faction. What do you call such meetings? They are >> nothing but an attempt to consolidate individual factions turning them >> into >> super-factions instead of uniting PAC. That is the true meaning of the >> Top-up approach. >> >> >> >> The Top-up approach is also doomed to fail. It will reach its political >> cul-de-sac sooner than expected. It’s a waste of time and fruitless >> exercise. It must be treated as such. >> >> >> >> A new approach is needed if we are serious about PAC unity. A principled, >> scientific approach based on the 1959 Basic Documents is the only >> solution >> to the current PAC crisis. All factions and parties must, first, be >> disbanded at a conference or congress level, not only PAM. That is what >> all >> PAC factions do not want. A new leadership must be put in place based on >> collective leadership and be legitimised by and resolved in a conference >> or >> congress and mandated to take collective responsibility to unite PAC, not >> individual PAC factions. If not so, let’s kiss and say goodbye to unity >> talks. They will not work. >> >> >> >> Unity talks are now used only for political point-scoring, not for what >> they intended for. We are not short-sighted to see it. We are all not >> obliged to unite if we are not the likeminded. Unholy marriage will not >> last. We know it from experience. That is why Africanists broke away from >> the captured ANC in 1958 and formed PAC. The same is true for PAC at the >> moment. It is captured too by wrong elements. With Africanist breakaway, >> the South African history was not the same again. The same happened after >> ZANU broke away from ZAPU and the Bolsheviks broke away from the >> Mensheviks. It is nothing new. The reason for opposing unprincipled unity >> is, without the foundation for unity (solid ideological unity, strong >> organisational unity and strict discipline), PAC unity is a pie in the >> sky. It will not last. >> >> >> >> The truth is PAC is captured by wrong elements like the ANC. To rescue >> PAC >> from the current crisis, extra-ordinary measures must be taken. >> Liberalism >> will not work. Let’s forget about it. >> >> >> >> I repeat: we are forced to unite. If there is no foundation for Party >> unity, let’s forget about PAC unity. PAC founders were right to leave >> captured ANC in 1958. History judged them correctly. It will be the judge >> even this time. >> >> >> >> Izwe Lethu! >> >> On 9 September 2016 at 16:55, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi >> <nrkgag...@gmail.com >> > wrote: >> >>> Comrade Charge-in >>> >>> >>> >>> Factionalism within the party which has exhibited itself in many ills >>> such as the parallel National Leadership structures including other >>> party >>> structures, is a manifestation of both the ideo-political and >>> organisation >>> degeneration, primarily degeneration of the branches and members of the >>> PAC, hence the rot and decay we see. >>> >>> >>> >>> Legitimacy of any leadership is derived from popular explicit and >>> implicit consent of the governed (members and branches) acting through, >>> and >>> as determined and prescribed by the PAC Constitution and Disciplinary >>> Code. Whether >>> a leadership has authority, in the sense that members and branches obey >>> its >>> instructions and laws, we can ask whether it(leadership) has legitimacy. >>> The term legitimate comes from the Latin for ‘lawful’. In the most basic >>> sense, a national leadership is legitimate if it exists and operates >>> according to the law in this case PAC Constitution and Disciplinary Code >>> thus enjoy full support and recognition of members and branches. >>> Branches >>> are the party's basic blocks, they are a determining factor of unity or >>> perpetuation of factions, if they are strong or weak. If the majority or >>> ideally all members and branches withdraw their recognition and >>> association >>> of any national leadership then no-one leadership can claim legitimacy. >>> >>> >>> >>> Weak branches and members are susceptible to evil influences, hence the >>> feuding parallel National Leaderships thrives on the basis of an >>> ideologically weak, confused and divided membership and/or branches. >>> Acting >>> outside of the PAC Constitution and Disciplinary code, the feuding >>> leaderships uses and exploit differences of whatever nature prevalent >>> among >>> members and/or branches thus coordinate and recognise those members >>> and/or >>> branches who legitimizes it, this then make an illegitimate leadership >>> by default become legitimate. >>> >>> >>> >>> Unified members acting through their Branches constitutes the basic >>> building blocks of the party as per the party disciplinary code. If a >>> branch based members disagree and they operate outside the party >>> constitution and disciplinary code, and their >>> disagreements persistently remain unresolved such an internal >>> environment will either breed factionalism or create a fertile ground >>> for >>> factionalism to prevail. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bottom-up implies refers to party members centred and driven unity >>> process to defactionalise the party from the branch level to regional >>> level >>> etc. Acting within the principle of democratic centralism, inclusive >>> branch >>> meetings composed of all PAC members drawn across feuding groupings and >>> also inclusive inter-branch regional meetings equally composed of all >>> members drawn from feuding groupings, PAM and any other PAC members >>> seeking >>> principled unity has proven to e the most effective method to >>> defactionalise and forge principled unity; such regular meetings, >>> political >>> classes included are coordinated and organised to take place on regular >>> basis (example monthly). >>> >>> >>> >>> Our Party is not simply an aggregate of individual members. It is a >>> unified, organic body established according to a definite principle. It >>> is >>> a composite of its leaders and its rank and file. The Party as an >>> organization at all levels and the broad body of the membership and it >>> has >>> been established in accordance with a definite principle, that is, >>> democratic centralism in the Party. >>> >>> >>> >>> · Organise regular all members inclusive branch meetings; >>> >>> · Reconstitute branches and operate within party constitution and >>> disciplinary code; >>> >>> · Organise regular all members regional meetings; >>> >>> · Reconstitute regions and operate within the party constitution >>> and disciplinary code; >>> >>> · Organise ideological and political workshops on regular basis >>> at regional and provincial level; >>> >>> · Initiate and organise mass based community struggles; >>> >>> · Organise regular all inclusive provincial meetings to >>> consolidate unity with common purpose and consolidate gains made; >>> >>> · Approach the PAC national unity conference from a position of >>> unity achieved from the bottom to top, that is branches to regional then >>> provincial; >>> >>> >>> >>> Avoid attending and convening national conferences coming from your >>> branches and regions being divided and highly factionalised, instead >>> approach national unity conference from a position where concrete steps >>> and >>> actions has been taken, gains had been to forge principle unity from the >>> branch level moving upward. >>> >>> >>> If P .A.C. wants to forge ahead, it must adopt and carry out this >>> principle with firmness and thoroughness. To address and root out >>> Factionalism which the party basic documents has concluded that >>> “Factionalism is the enemy of solidarity and unity of action”, the Party >>> basic documents also concludes that “to destroy it (factionalism) at its >>> roots, maximum self-criticism should be encouraged within the movement. >>> A >>> movement that adopts democratic centralism in its approach to its >>> organizational problems will know how to deal with the virus of >>> factionalism”. And that “Where the normal processes of free discussion >>> fail >>> to curb factional tendencies, then firm iron discipline should come into >>> play, and factional”. >>> >>> >>> >>> Shango Lashu >>> >>> NKrumah >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9 September 2016 at 11:13, Chargein Mabaso <chargein...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Comrade Nkrumah >>>> >>>> How are you, Son of the soil? >>>> >>>> I would also appreciate to meet you and other comrade who would like >>>> to >>>> share ideas on the unity talks in relation to my input. My position is >>>> not >>>> cast in stone. I have applied my mind to the task at hand. May be I am >>>> not >>>> informed on the basis of twor approaches. I only based my position on >>>> the >>>> scientific approach to Party unity. I also drew lessons from other >>>> revolutions worldwide. The current crisis is not unique to PAC. All >>>> revolutionary parties through the world experienced the same challenge >>>> of >>>> factionalism. They addressed their own crises the same way as enshrined >>>> in >>>> the PAC Basic Documents. It is the only objective and scientific >>>> approach. >>>> Others are subjective and unscientific. That is my stance. >>>> >>>> Lest we forget! There is unfinished business in the PAC. People want to >>>> settle old scores, in one way or another. Let's not trivalise the >>>> current >>>> crisis. Some of political and ideological differences in the PAC have >>>> their >>>> roots going as far as in exile and in Robben Island in the days of >>>> Casablanca and Morovian groups, Katanga's, Panafro, Sobukwe Forum, >>>> APRP, >>>> etc. PAM, ID and APC are new phenomena. We need to open those wounds, >>>> surgically clean and stitch them so that they heal properly. The >>>> broad-church mentality does not work even in reformist parties like the >>>> ANC, let alone in evolutionary ones. >>>> >>>> My challenge is: I believe the approach enshrined in the PAC Basic >>>> Documents is the only correct and scientific one. The reason is, from >>>> my >>>> experience since I joined PAC, any position in line with the PAC Basic >>>> Documents is always the correct one at the end. Any violation of the >>>> PAC >>>> Basic Documents always proved to be wrong in the final analysis. Take, >>>> for >>>> example, the suspension of armed struggle by the PAC NWC and the >>>> President's violation of the PAC Constitution and Disciplinary Code >>>> after >>>> Qwaqwa Congress. No amount of innovation and creativity will ever >>>> disprove >>>> the correctness of the PAC Basic Documents. They are sacrosanct to us >>>> as >>>> Pan Africanist just like the Bible is to Christians. Once comrades start >>>> to >>>> question their correctness, I always feel suspicious of the intentions >>>> of >>>> those Party members. I know there is currently some members who openly >>>> disagree with Sobukwe and Kwame Nkrumah on certain political line they >>>> advocated for the Party Their mere mention of such disagreements makes >>>> me >>>> doubt their intentions and honest. They sound mischievous. To me, that >>>> is >>>> strange to claim to be following in the footsteps of Sobukwe and >>>> Nkrumah >>>> and still disagree with the them on their political line. Such a move >>>> is >>>> like being a proud Christian totally opposed to some of the teachings >>>> of >>>> Jesus Christ, for example, being opposed to the "turn-the-other-chick" >>>> stance advocated by Jesus Christ. It's contradiction in terms. Honest >>>> and >>>> loyal Christians do not advocate "an-eye-for-an-eye" stance in dealing >>>> with >>>> their enemies. >>>> >>>> May be after our meeting I will be convinced otherwise. As of now, I am >>>> not. I currently believe there is no need to event the wheel at this >>>> stage. >>>> The tools of resolving PAC crisis are enshrined in the PAC Basic >>>> Documents, >>>> no where else. I may be wrong. Please educate me, noble sons and >>>> daughters >>>> of the soil. >>>> >>>> I am available next week from Monday to Friday. I will be around >>>> Joburg >>>> for the whole week. We can meet at any convenient time. Let's keep in >>>> contact. >>>> >>>> I want to be honest, I am not convince the Top-down and Bottom-up >>>> approaches will ever work. I may be wrong. My instinct and logic say >>>> the >>>> opposite. Objectively, the two approaches are not workable. May be >>>> after >>>> our meeting I will see light at the end of the tunnel. Let's talk >>>> later, >>>> comrade. >>>> >>>> Izwe Lethu! >>>> >>>> >>>> Charge-in Mabaso >>>> Cell: 071 020 3554 >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8 September 2016 at 21:17, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi < >>>> nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Cde Charge in >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the document which I perused, your critique of Top Down and >>>>> Bottom Up strategies fails to recognise the solutions presented or >>>>> arising >>>>> from each strategy and also that both strategies are capable to >>>>> converge as >>>>> long as there the two strategies are not executed from an antagonist >>>>> initiators. >>>>> >>>>> Please note: Not all PAC Branches and regions have parallel >>>>> structures, >>>>> in some areas parallel structures have collapsed, this present a space >>>>> to >>>>> rebuild ftom the bottom. >>>>> >>>>> I suggest a session to exchange ideas on your paper. >>>>> >>>>> Shango lashu >>>>> Nkrumah >>>>> >>>>> On 8 Sep 2016 13:28, "Chargein Mabaso" <chargein...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ma-Afrika >>>>>> >>>>>> Please find the attached document as my objective contribution to the >>>>>> debate on unity talks within the Pan Africanist camp. It is my sincere >>>>>> hope >>>>>> that the contribution will kick-start the derailed talks into motion >>>>>> in the >>>>>> right direction. >>>>>> >>>>>> Izwe Lethu! >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send >>>>>> an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco >>>>> >>>>> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco >>>> >>>> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com >>> >>> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> >>> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco >>> >>> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups >>> "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an >>> email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> -- >> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com >> >> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> >> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco >> >> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > -- > Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com > > Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > > Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. 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