Hi guys, Thanks to Donna for persevering. I just want to reassure both you guys that that's what I meant by my question in the first place. I never imagined that this process had some power to actually rectify errors on the origin CD! I don't know how I gave that impression, causing Kevin to try to correct a mistaken idea I didn't even have. Anyway, what you say, Donna, and what Kevin agrees to, is exactly what I was guessing to be the purpose of the process. it's what I meant to have said. I'll bet if I looked back through the exchanges, I'd find a juncture where I might have phrased something in just such a way as to divert or mislead Kevin. I probably spoke of "correcting the errors that are on the CD," for instance, when I didn't mean "fix the CD," by any means-- I know that isn't possible, and that error correction in a player, for example, just compensates for and paves over such errors,somewhat I suppose as this intermediate copying step does. I should have said something like "fixes the errors that have been copied from the CD, before they're encoded into the compressed music file and/or the duped CD and become permanent and, likely, unplayable."
Whew. Well, that's what I meant in the first place, and the misunderstanding grew worse and worse until Kevin seemed to be negating every one of my proposals, while all the while we were on the same page in our thoughts though not in our words. Well, so it goes. Thanks for your persistence in trying to straighten me out even though I had the right idea, Kevin! And Donna, thanks for taking a moment (or more, I suppose) to offer an articulate revision for us to consider and just say "Oh, yeah, that's what we meant." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 1:37 AM Subject: Re: Kevin: On the fly, another question Yes, Dana, that's it in a nutshell. Kevin E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana S. Leslie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 2:24 AM Subject: Re: Kevin: On the fly, another question > Yardbird, > > Pardon me for jumping in, but I think your problem is that you're > misunderstanding what Kevin is telling you. correct me if I'm wrong, Kevin, > but my understanding is that the intermediate stage of writing an image > file to disk is NOT intended to correct/prevent errors that result from > flaws on the source disk. Rather, it is intended to provide an opportunity > to correct errors that were introduced in the transcription process, from > source to destination, before these errors get permanently written to CD, > thus producing an expensive coaster. Do I have it right, Kevin. > > Blessed Be, > > Dana > > D. S. Leslie, n�e C. R. Guttman > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > �E OL' PHILOSOPHIE SHOPPE > Your Source for Discounted Ideas > http://members.cox.net/dsleslie2/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 9:36 PM > Subject: Re: Kevin: On the fly, another question > > > > What I'm asking is, how does the intermediate stage of having this image > > written to disk improve accuracy? that is all I've been trying to ask by > > what I've said. If the music CD from which you're ripping tracks has > > flaws > > that would distort the sound or introduce noises (I don't believe you mean > > the pops and clicks that plague LPs, really, do you?), then how does this > > intermediate step help protect against winding up with a noisy .mp3 file? > > I > > don't know what you mean by asking rhetorircally why the developer would > > include this stage as an option. I honestly don't know what's > > accomplished > > with this. If it doesn't give the program a chance to clean up errors, > > then > > what good does it do? I am *not* speaking sarcastically. I'm really > > asking.being > > > > Do you think I'm questioning the wisdom of the program writers who include > > this option? No, not at all. I'm not anywhere near being able to address > > something like that. I honestly just don't see how making an intermediate > > copy is going to prevent you from getting bad sound from a damaged CD. I > > mean, what is done along the way to remedy a bad CD? You're saying > > nothing > > is done? Do you see what I'm not getting? I don't know how else to > > phrase > > it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <[email protected]> > > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 12:04 PM > > Subject: Re: Kevin: On the fly, another question > > > > > > No Joel. > > > > Once an image is created it's not going to be able to go back and clean up > > any imperfections. My point is that the creation of the image itself > > allows > > the ripper to separate the processes. If you're ripping on the fly you > > won't get an image file at all because the encoding is being done on the > > data stream as it leaves the CD-ROM. > > > > You really only need ask yourself a very simple question as to whether you > > want to use on the fly or not. Do you think that developers put this flag > > in just to slow you down when ripping or burning? The developer obviously > > wants their program to rip and burn at the maximum speed and quality so > > why > > would they build in a feature who's only purpose would be to slow you > > down? > > > > It's pretty obvious I think that the trade off is that you forgo some > > quality for speed and so it's really a personal choice. > > > > > > Kevin > > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <[email protected]> > > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 6:17 PM > > Subject: Re: Kevin: On the fly, another question > > > > > >> Kevin, > >> > >> You mean that when you have flaws on an audio CD, once they get written > >> to > >> an image file on disc, the encoding process is less likely to pick up the > >> flaws, somehow, as it creates the compressed file? > >> appy----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 10:05 AM > >> Subject: Re: Kevin: On the fly, another question > >> > >> > >> Hi Daniel. > >> > >> It's not that flaws at source can be fixed just because you've unchecked > > the > >> "on the fly" checkbox. If there are flaws on the CD then they will cause > >> issues whether you rip on the fly or not. > >> > >> The point I'm not making very well is that by breaking down a complex > >> process involving the extraction and conversion of data from a spinning > >> disc, there are less chances of issues arising if the process is instead > >> broken down into a number of discreet steps. Specifically, separating > >> the > >> process of reading the disc to extract all audio information before any > >> conversion to MP3 is done using an encoder that is applying complex > >> algorithms to the data to assess what it thinks can be disregarded and > > what > >> it thinks needs to be retained to fulfil high quality sound reproduction. > >> > >> Hope that's clearer. > >> > >> Kevin > >> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 5:26 PM > >> Subject: Re: Kevin: On the fly, another question > >> > >> > >> > kevin, > >> > I don't quite understand. If you aren't offered the opportunity to > >> correct > >> > an error yourself, then are you implying that somehow, during this two > >> step > >> > process, errors from a damanged or flawed CD nonetheless do get > > corrected > >> > for before they're written to .mp3 from the image? Only without your > >> > intercession? Is that it? Otherwise,I don't understand how the > > two-step > >> > process ensures that flaws in the audio CD source don't get written to > >> .mp3. > >> > Is my question clearer now? > >> > > >> > Thanks. > >> > elps m isk e3tween > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <[email protected]> > >> > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 8:40 AM > >> > Subject: Re: Kevin: On the fly, another question > >> > > >> > > >> > No, it won't detect potential errors and allow you to stop, continue or > >> fix > >> > in situ. By creating the image you are breaking down the tasks > > associated > >> > with ripping so that you extract in one step to your hard drive and > >> > then > >> > convert from there. When on the fly you extract and convert in a > >> > single > >> > step. It is for this reason alone that you are likely to have less > >> > risk > >> of > >> > imperfections when ripping to an image first. > >> > > >> > Regards. > >> > > >> > Kevin > >> > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > To: "PC-Audio" <[email protected]> > >> > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 4:31 PM > >> > Subject: Kevin: On the fly, another question > >> > > >> > > >> > > Kevin, > >> > > Let's say I use the method of ripping that involves writing a file or > >> > image > >> > > to disk and then ripping from that, the method you prefer for its > >> > prudence. > >> > > Okay. So what if a CD I'm ripping tracks from turns out to have the > >> kinds > >> > > of flaws that elicit this "jitter" error report and mean that you'll > >> wind > >> > up > >> > > with a messed-up .mp3 copy? In what way does this method actually > >> provide > >> > > protection? Does it stop the process at some point, notify you that > >> > there's > >> > > a flaw, and offer the option to correct it by clicking on something? > > Or > >> > if > >> > > not that, what? > >> > > > >> > > Thanks. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> > > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.1.0 - Release Date: 5/27/2005 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > >> > > http://www.pc-audio.org > >> > > > >> > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > >> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > >> > http://www.pc-audio.org > >> > > >> > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.1.0 - Release Date: 5/27/2005 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.1.0 - Release Date: 5/27/2005 > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > >> > http://www.pc-audio.org > >> > > >> > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > >> http://www.pc-audio.org > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 5/27/2005 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 5/27/2005 > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > >> http://www.pc-audio.org > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > http://www.pc-audio.org > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 5/27/2005 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 5/27/2005 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > http://www.pc-audio.org > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > http://www.pc-audio.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 5/27/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 5/27/2005 _______________________________________________ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
