Hi Igor, 

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Igor Bryskin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Envoyé : dimanche 16 juillet 2006 23:50
> À : LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet : Re: [Pce] P & I flags
> 
> Hi JL.
> 
> Please, see in line.
> 
> Igor
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Igor Bryskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 3:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [Pce] P & I flags
> 
> 
> Hi Igor,
> 
> See inline,
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Igor Bryskin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Envoyé : samedi 15 juillet 2006 15:51
> > À : LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Objet : Re: [Pce] P & I flags
> >
> > Hi JL,
> >
> > I have a question. Suppose, a path computation request has
> > two constraints:
> > link colors and link bandwidth. Suppose the path computation
> > fails. The question is how the PCE can figure out what is the
> > reason of this computation failure?
> > As an implementer of  a
> > Path Computation Engine I always found it a difficult
> > problem. Normally, presented with a path computation request
> > with link type constraints as in the example I am describing,
> > a PCE would prune out the arcs form the network graph
> > associated with links that do not satisfy at least one of the
> > constraints, and after that run some algorithm. If the
> > algorithm fails the only thing is clear that there are no
> > links with proper colors that have enough bandwidth, that is,
> > entire set of constraints cannot be satisfied. But it is
> > impossible to say which constraint in particular has caused
> > the failure. Even if you start removing constraints one by
> > one and rerunning the algorithm (which would be very
> > unpractical to do), you will find out that it does not help.
> > The path computation of the example may succeed in both these
> > iterations because:
> > a) there are links with proper colors;
> > b) there are links with enough bandwidth.
> >
> > The bottom line is that path computation fails because of the
> > entire set of constraints rather than because of one or
> > several of them, and it is unrealistic to think that PCE in
> > its negative reply would mark constraints which cause the failure.
> 
> I don't think this is unrealistic, there are cases in your 
> example  where
> the bandwidth alone as a single constraint cannot be fit 
> while color as a
> single constraint can be fit (and vice versa). In this case 
> this makes sense
> IMO to send a negative reply indicating that the bandwidth 
> cannot be fit.
> Anyway in the case you mention the PCE can send a negative 
> reply indicating
> bandwidth and color as unsatisifed constraints, and may even 
> suggest values
> that could be satisfied
> (shall we consider that a PCE may be a bit more clever??)
> 
> IB>> This is the whole my point. If there is a set of 
> mandatory constraints,
> there is no way for a PCE to tell because of which particular 
> constraint(s)
> the computation has failed, 

Why, if it is clever enough to detect a blocking constraint?



>let alone recommend other values for the
> constraints to make the computation successful. I'd like to 
> hear from PCE
> developers whether they share my view.

Ah, OK let discuss with PCE developpers!

<JLLR with PCE and PCEP developper hat on> I don't share your view...

Best Regards,

JL

> 
> The only reasons to mark the constraints in the PC reply IMO are:
> 
> a) for a mandatory constraint either when it was not 
> recognized or could not
> be otherwise supported (e.g. an unknown color was specified)
> b) for an optional constraint when it was removed according 
> to a signaled or
> policed constraint relaxation strategy which made the computation
> successful.
> 
> Regards,
> Igor
> 
> 
> >
> > So, I recommend to have two flags (say, P and I). One of them
> > should be used to mark mandatory constraints, while another -
> > optional constraints.
> 
> As already commented to Dimitri, this is related to 
> constraint relaxation
> and is completely beyond the scope of this document as agreed 
> one year ago
> on this list. There are various solutions for constraints 
> relaxation that
> need to be discussed. By the way it could work as is by sending two
> requests, one with mandatory constraints and the other with 
> all (mandatory +
> optional) constraints...
> 
> 
> > Recommend to make an assumption that PCE will run path
> > computation at most two times:
> 
> We will never make such recommendation, this is definitely a local
> implementation issue.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> JL
> 
> >
> > 1) trying to accommodate all constraints;
> > 2) in case 1) fails, removing all optional constraints
> >
> > PCE should return:
> >
> > a)  successful response without flags when  1) succeeds;
> > b) successful response with flag I when 2) succeeds;
> > 3) negative response with no flags when 2 fails.
> >
> > Igor
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:46 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Pce] P & I flags
> >
> >
> > Hi Dimitri,
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : dimitri papadimitriou [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Envoyé : vendredi 14 juillet 2006 15:44
> > > À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Objet : [Pce] P & I flags
> > >
> > > the comments around the P and I flags are
> > >
> > > o) we have two levels of optionality in listing the protocol
> > > object and usage level of the protocol object - however it is
> > > much more appropriate to be sure that mandatory constraints
> > > have been taken rather than having the optional having been
> > > taken into account
> >
> > As clearly pointed out in the same setion of the draft, if 
> a mandatory
> > constraint cannot be handled the PCE replies with PCErr message
> >
> > "If the PCE does not understand an object with the P Flag set or
> >    understands the object but decides to ignore the object, 
> the entire
> >    PCEP message MUST be rejected and the PCE MUST send a 
> PCErr message
> >    with Error-Type="Unknown Object" or "Not supported Object".
> >
> > If the PCE can handle all mandatory constraints it replies
> > with a PCRep
> > message (either positive or negative if there is no path),
> > else it sends a
> > PCErr message.
> > Hence the PCC knows whether mandatory constraints have been 
> taken into
> > account.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >     P flag (Processing-Rule - 1-bit): the P flag allows a PCC
> > > to specify
> > >     in a PCReq message sent to a PCE whether the object
> > must be taken
> > >     into account by the PCE during path computation or is
> > > just optional.
> > >     When the P flag is set, the object MUST be taken into
> > > account by the
> > >     PCE.  Conversely, when the P flag is cleared, the object
> > > is optional
> > >     and the PCE is free to ignore it if not supported.
> > >
> > > o) on the I flag issue is identical why include an object
> > > which has not considered during computation ?
> >
> > I don't catch your point, the PCC may want to know the
> > constraints that were
> > not taken into account during path computation, this sounds
> > quite important
> > isn'it?
> >
> >
> > there are so
> > > many things that the PCE has not taken into account during
> > > computation so why bother ?
> >
> > Hum I don't follow you here "there are so many things...",
> > What do you mean?
> >
> >
> > > it is imho
> > >   more important to include the mandatory object not taken
> > > into account
> >
> > If a mandatory object is not taken into account, you cannot
> > compute the path
> > and you send an error message. I agree with you that this
> > would be useful to
> > include within the PCErr the set of objects not supported, 
> this can be
> > clarified in next revision.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >     I flag (Ignore - 1 bit): the I flag is used by a PCE 
> in a PCRep
> > >     message to indicate to a PCC whether or not an optional
> > object was
> > >     processed.  The PCE MAY include the ignored optional
> > object in its
> > >     reply and set the I flag to indicate that the optional
> > object was
> > >     ignored during path computation.  When the I flag is
> > > cleared, the PCE
> > >     indicates that the optional object was processed 
> during the path
> > >     computation.  The setting of the I flag for optional 
> objects is
> > >     purely indicative and optional.  The I flag MUST be
> > > cleared if the P
> > >     flag is set.
> > >
> > > o) the result of all these flags is that a PCC can be
> > > wrapping around unknown constraints create processing churn
> > > on the PCE;
> >
> > OK, if you mean that we should include the unsupported
> > object(s) within the
> > PCErr, then we are in sync
> >
> > Thanks for the comment
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > JL
> >
> > >
> > >     If the PCE does not understand an object with the P 
> Flag set or
> > >     understands the object but decides to ignore the object,
> > > the entire
> > >     PCEP message MUST be rejected and the PCE MUST send a
> > > PCErr message
> > >     with Error-Type="Unknown Object" or "Not supported Object".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Pce mailing list
> > > [email protected]
> > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pce mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce
> >
> >
> 
> 

_______________________________________________
Pce mailing list
[email protected]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce

Reply via email to