> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:03:37 -0500 > From: Fluxstringer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Regarding the 8600 Edgarbc wrote; > >>you cannot use 200 mhz card in the 300 mobo. >>Its a kansas mobo. >> > > 22222222222222222222 > > My reference says the 8600 is a repackaged 8500. And although 250 > and 300 MHz models were sold the 8600 did not have the TSUNAMI > board. > > An 8600 native 300 MHz processor will be alright in an 8500 board BUT > a 300 MHz processor meant for a TSUNAMI equipped > 9600 will fry an 8600 ( read 8500 ) board. > > And the 200 MHz card will work fine just slower. Sigh. We could use a FAQ for this, but since I don't have time to contribute to one, I guess I shouldn't complain. There were three (3) 8500-type machines. You can distinguish them in various physical ways, but if you don't want to open the machine up, the easiest way is to use Apple System Profiler (assuming you can boot the machine) to look at the ROM Revision. Note that these ROM revisions are shared by many other machines, so this advice only tells you how to tell an 8500 from an 8600 from an 8600 Enhanced. The first was the 8500. It has ROM revision $77D.28F2 soldered down. It used the original power supply connector. This ROM is also found in the 7200, 7500, 7600, 9500, PTP, PowerWave, S900, J700 and Genesis. The second was the 8600. This short-lived machine has ROM revision $77D.34F1 (or was that F2?) soldered down. It is not a Kansas machine. Other than the changed power supply connector it may as well be an 8500. This ROM is also found in the original 9600 and the 7300. The third machine is also called an 8600. The ROM revision on this machine is $77D.34F5. Apple's official name was the 8600 Enhanced. This machine has the Kansas motherboard and does not use the common CPU cards. It needs a compatible third party upgrade or an *Apple* PPC604e card at 250 MHz or higher. Note that there are thirdy party 604e cards (Umax, PCC) at 250 MHz which will not work. So the original poster probably needs to determine whether he has an original 8600 or an 8600 enhanced. You can also tell by turning the MB over and reading the numbers on the ROM. They are 341S0280 through 341S0283 (four chips) and 341S0380 through 341S0383 respectively. I believe that the 8600 enhanced also lacks the L2 cache slot, but I'm unsure about that. Kansas is not the same as Tsunami. Tsunami refers to the six slot machines which were the 9500 and 9600 models. Apple used the same chip set in many machines referred to collectively as the PowerSurge family. Within this family, the six PCI slot motherboards were called Tsunami boards. There were three of these (9500, 9600, 9600E). The 8600E and 9600E are referred to as Kansas motherboards collectively, although they are fairly different (3 slots vs. 6 slots, video in/out vs. none). But the Kansas boards have the Mach V CPU module with in-line cache in common and their ROM version in common. The 7x00 machines were the TNT machines and the 8x00 machines were the Nitro machines, unless I have TNT and Nitro backwards. Note that the 8600 Enhanced and 9600 Enhanced both belong to two categories. The 8600 Enhanced is a Nitro motherboard which is also a Kansas motherboard. The 9600 Enhanced is a Tsunami board which is also a Kansas board. The ROM ($77D.34F5) in the Kansas machines solves the Speculative Processing issue with G3 and G4 CPU cards. If you desolder the ROM (four chips) from a Kansas machine and install it in an earlier machine, it conveys the SP solution to the new host. The distinguishing chips in the PowerSurge family are a Hammerhead chip (343S1190) as a memory controller/CPU bus arbiter, at least one Bandit chip (343S0020) as a PCI bus to CPU bus bridge (AKA PCI controller), and a Grand Central chip (343S1125) as a PCI device which controls all of the motherboard IO and collects the system interrupts. These three chips make a PowerSurge machine. That's all that the PowerWave, S900 and J700 have. The S900 and J700 get additional slots with a PCI-PCI Bridge which is like sticking an expansion chassis on the motherboard. The Hammerhead can support additional chips on the CPU bus. So, the 9500 has a second Bandit chip which bridges from the CPU bus to a second PCI bus. The 7500 - 8600 have a CHAOS/CONTROL chip which looks a lot like a Bandit to the CPU bus, but has video circuitry behind it instead of a PCI bus. The CHAOS/CONTROL chip is the video bus bridge. In theory, it was meant to be possible to put up to four devices on the CPU bus, in addition to Hammerhead and the CPU(s). So there could have been a machine with four Bandits and twelve PCI slots, maybe. In practice, Apple's arbitration scheme is kind of creaky with even two Bandits and Grand Central probably lacks the interrupt pins to support the additional slots. Jeff Walther -- PCI-PowerMacs is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/> and... 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