Hello!
Stephan Sokolow has written on Thursday, 9 January, at 19:54:
>On 14-01-09 06:04 PM, Andrej N. Gritsenko wrote:
>> Translation revealed that we need to decide right strings in the
>> progression window and put them there. Those strings are not yet good.
>> There are three questionable cases, I'll illustrate them below showing
>> the window in text representation caught in the process.
>> 1) The simplest case:
>> Copying files: 1, 2, 3, 4
>> To: /tmp
>> ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
>> Copying 2
>> Q: Is the 'To' correct word or should it be 'Into' instead?
>Will the destination line always show the parent folder or will it show
>the actual destination filename when copying a single file or folder?
Yes, that is the exact case - destination line will show the parent
folder where new files will be created (copied, moved, links created).
The destination path is shown only in case of link creation as it's shown
below.
>If it will always show the parent folder, then "Into" would be slightly
>more correct (which might make it easier for translators to handle) but,
>for historical reasons, would feel unusual.
>The "slightly" in "slightly more correct" comes about because "to"
>refers to a location (like a street address) while "into" refers to a
>container (like a folder or room). "Into" is correct for a physical file
>folder (which is the visual metaphor used) but "To" is correct for a
>street address, which is the closest intuitive metaphor for "/tmp" and,
>in the DOS and UNIX world, predates the folder metaphor.
>Since native English speakers build a "both an neither" intuition about
>whether "To" or "Into" was more correct in this case, things got
>complicated.
>While "Into a folder" is more grammatically correct, since "To a
>location" is also correct and a location can be either a full path or a
>parent folder, programmers decided to keep things simple by using "To"
>for both cases. That built up a weak expectation that "To" would be used
>rather than "Into".
>In summary, "Into" will make users look twice, then realize that, while
>it's unusual and wastes space with two extra characters, it's not wrong.
>"To" won't make users look twice because they're used to seeing it.
>My advice is to stay with "To".
That's okay but I want to create as less work for the translators as
possible therefore that word should be appliable for links creation as
well, see below.
>> 2) More complex case:
>> Changing attributes of files: 1, 2, 3, ...
>> ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
>> Changing attributes of file 53
>> Q: Is the 'of' correct word here or should it be 'for' instead?
>That's a very tricky case to explain. Both are "valid enough" but
>determining which is more valid requires an understanding of English
>grammar and the nature of "attributes" that most native speakers lack.
>("on" would also be valid enough though less because it's intuitive and
>more from seeing it used so often that it becomes normal.)
>I can try to make a suggestion but first I need a clearer understanding
>of which operations that message will and will not be displayed for. Is
>it just for setting the mode bits or does it cover other attributes as well?
Well, changeable attributes may be (not valid for every file, it's why
the "may" is used here):
- mode bits
- owner and group
- displayable name
- associated icon
- "hidden" attribute
- link's target
>> 2) Yet more complex case:
>>
>> Creating links to files: 1, 2, 3, 4, ...
>> To: /tmp
>> ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
>> Creating link /tmp/423
>>
>> Q: Is the 'to' correct word here or should it be 'onto' (or even 'for')
>> instead?
>> Q: If 'to' is correct then probably 'To:' should be changed? Or not?
Since you skipped the first question, I assume that "Creating links
to files" is correct there, right?
>Use "In:" since you're creating the links IN the parent folder you're
>displaying.
For a bit of clarification: it is not always the folder that is whown
already, it might be selected as destination folder from folder selection
window (similarly to what "Copy to..." does).
As I said above, I don't want to add another string to translators
(with a comment too, especially knowing not all translators read the
comments with appropriate attention, and in some languages the word "in"
which means to have inside and word "in" which means to put inside are
very different words). Therefore I would like to have here the same
string as for destination folder used in the copying case, which will
tell user that new files will be added to the destination folder. What
can you tell about using "Into:" here?
>> The best would be an advice from native English speaker but opinions
>> of everyone else are welcomed. Thank you in advance.
>English-speaking Canadian, born and raised, with an interest in grammar
>and language only exceeded by my interest in computers.
>Speaking of which, I noticed a few points I can draw attention to in
>that sentence to improve your grammar.
>First, "an advice" is incorrect because "advice" is not a countable noun.
>It's the same as how you can count cups, handfuls, cubes, pieces, loaves
>of water, sand, ice, and bread, but you can't have "a sand" or "a
>bread". Advice has no single, inherent, automatic unit of division, so
>you have to explicitly specify one or just say "advice" and let it be
>implicitly understood that you want "some advice" but aren't specifying
>how much.
>Second, "English-speaker" is always a countable noun, so you have to say
>"from a native English-speaker" or "from native English-speakers". (The
>hyphen is the grammatically correct way to indicate that "English" is an
>essential part of the noun rather than a clarifying adjective. Without
>either that or sufficient context, "English speaker" could mean an audio
>output device (a speaker) manufactured in England or a person who gives
>speeches professionally (a speaker) and is of English ancestry.)
>Third, "opinions of everyone else" is one of those things that should
>work but is never actually said in practice. We either say "opinions
>from everyone else" or, more commonly, "everyone else's opinions".
>Finally, "are welcomed" should be "are welcome". Native English speakers
>won't stop to think about why "are welcomed" feels wrong but here's the
>gist of it:
>1. "Are welcomed" is describing an action that will be taken each time.
>(It's another way of writing "Every time I receive a piece of advice, I
>will welcome it")
Hehe, probably in sub-consciousness I feel something alike "never
enough" (you may know the feeling too) so it might be the reason. :)
>2. "Are welcome" is describing a state of being in which something exists.
Such brilliant bunch of advices! Thank you very much!
With best regards.
Andriy.
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