I'm sending |fullscreen 1, cursor 0, menubar 0, border 0, create, 1, lighting 0(
(and every variant of order etc. I can think of, menubar -1 etc.) to [gemwin] and the top apple menubar shows up every time. I tried Pd-extended latest release 0.40-3 and Pd-extended 0.41-4 RC 4 I tried everything I could think of in the [window properties] help of Gemwin and a few times got rid of the menubar with some magical something-or-other but if I closed Pd, reopened and tried again I couldn't duplicate getting rid of the menubar. -John
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