This is obviously a loop. All this has been said and proposed before in the thread [1], that has been posted by alex porres a few posts back. Sorry for not having brought any new perspectives into the discussion, but having just repeated what has been said already.
The only thing i don't really get: Why seems there some agreement, that using $0 to get the selector could be confusing? It would certainly end the discussions about the special (somehow undefined) state it has now. roman [1]: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2009-02/067889.html Am 13.11.09 10:52 schrieb "Roman Haefeli" unter <[email protected]>: > > > > Am 13.11.09 01:31 schrieb "Phil Stone" unter <[email protected]>: > >> Mathieu Bouchard wrote: >>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, Frank Barknecht wrote: >>>> Alexandre Porres hat gesagt: // Alexandre Porres wrote: >>>>> But I totally disagree, I have been teaching a lot basic Pd around, and >>>>> people always get confused and think they can just throw "$0" in >>>>> messages. >>>> That may be because your students assume, that $1 in a message box is >>>> the same >>>> as $1 in an object box when in fact it's something different. >>> >>> That may be because you assume that objectboxes' $0 must have >>> something to do with $1,$2,$3,... when in fact it's something different. >>> >>> $3 stands for ce_argv[2] >>> $2 stands for ce_argv[1] >>> $1 stands for ce_argv[0] >>> $0 stands for ce_dollarzero >>> >>> it's a special case no matter what. >> >> Right. Which neatly brings the question back around to "why can't $0 be >> used in message boxes?" I've said this before (to no avail): it is well >> understood that $0 has no meaning in *messages* -- however, this is not >> a good reason why $0 can't be used in *message boxes.* >> >> Since "1024-foo" (where "1024" represents the canvas-identifier), *does* >> have meaning in messages, why must we jump through (admittedly minor, >> but still quite annoying) hoops just to get that canvas-identifier into >> a message? >> >> It probably belongs in the "some things will never change in Pd" >> category; therefore we must resign ourselves to this discussion >> re-appearing on a regular basis. > > $0 in messages is only special in the sense, that it has no meaning at all. > it wouldn't make it less special to use it as a container for canvas > identifier in message boxes. $-variables in objects have a different meaning > from $-variables in message boxes, no matter what. I understand, that it > would make patching often a lot easier, but conceptually it would be > exceptional to make $0 in message-boxes be replaced by the > canvas-identifier, while all other $n-variables in message-boxes get > replaced by the n-th element of the incoming list. I wouldn't want to have > to pay attention to n in $n in order to determine its behaviour. And i also > don't support a change that would introduce an inconsistency like that. Why > don't people fight with the same effort to make $1 in message boxes be > replaced by the first argument of the patch? > > Personally, i find it 'unecological' to just not use $0 at all in message > boxes. I am haven't checked, but i think this idea must have been brought > up already: > > Let's make $0 in message boxes be replaced by the selector of the incoming > messages. Currently, it is quite cumbersome to type check a pd message and > it requires a lot of patching. Using $0 to get the '0th' element of the > incoming message would be consistent with the way $-variables are currently > used in message boxes and it would be tremendously useful. Just to > illustrate the proposed use of $0: > > the incoming message: the respective $0 > 'hallo velo' 'hallo' > 'list mein fahrrad' 'list' > 'symbol bike' 'symbol' > '12 twentyfour' 'list' > '12' 'float' > 'bang' 'bang' > 'bla' 'bla' > > If this could be implemented, any future discussion about why $0 in message > boxes is not replaced by the canvas identifier would be lapsed. > > roman > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: > http://mail.yahoo.de > > _______________________________________________ > [email protected] mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___________________________________________________________ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de _______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
