Having a static table of objects that informs the user what's included in the
currently shifting target that is Pd-extended is the wrong approach. My solution would be to delete the entire table, but maybe someone else has a better, less drastic idea. -Jonathan ----- Original Message ----- > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <[email protected]> > To: Jonathan Wilkes <[email protected]> > Cc: Max <[email protected]>; PD list <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 11:57 PM > Subject: Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention > > > The FLOSS manuals book is editable by anyone. Please fix it if it has wrong > info. :) > > .hc > > On Feb 9, 2012, at 1:22 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > >> There are still a lot of sticking points with Pd for new users-- someone > recently wrote >> the list asking where all the objects are that are listed in the FLOSS > manual. At least >> >> some of those objects have to be downloaded/installed separately-- [pvoc~] > is listed >> >> under Pd extended but it's not included in it, nor is the relevant > library listed. >> >> >> But even if pvoc~ doesn't create, how does the user know for _sure_ > that there isn't >> >> a pvoc~ binary living somewhere on their machine? Pd is like those > magnetic words >> >> you put on a fridge to make poetry, but over time roommates come in and > remove >> >> some of the words, and now you need your own blank magnet and pen and write > the >> >> word and put it back on the fridge. Or, you can put the word > "import" with some words >> >> that describe last place where you found the word-- many of those places > have helpful >> >> names that are the initials of the person who wrote them that you've > never met. None >> >> of this is clearly documented btw, unless you ask on this listed and get a > reply in the >> >> time it would have taken to finish a patch if there had been clear > documentation in the >> >> first place. >> >> >> Well let's remove the object chain with pvoc~ in it and try a different > approach. Oops, I >> >> can only "undo" pvoc~ itself because I've reached my > "undo" limit. Is this program from >> >> the 1980s or what? Maybe it is-- I can't even move this array that > holds a 1-sec waveform >> >> I loaded into it without Pd being sluggish. >> >> Well at least there aren't any presets to impede my creativity... >> >> I'm finishing up a search plugin that will somewhat alleviate the pvoc~ > example, and pd-l2ork >> >> has helped by having infinite undo and snappier graphical displacement of > objects. But >> >> these kinds of problems definitely hinder new users, and if you're > seeing students are seeking >> >> out Pd on Facebook because they have a hard time configuring a mailinglist > digest, you can >> >> bet they are Googling for better tools when they run into these or myriad > other >> >> usability/documentation problems. >> >> >> -Jonathan >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Max <[email protected]> >>> To: PD list <[email protected]> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 10:50 PM >>> Subject: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention >>> >>> Dear list and Pure Data community, >>> >>> I'd wanted to write this down since a few months now and finally > had the >>> chance to do so. >>> To welcome you in Weimar and Berlin in August has been a great pleasure > for us. >>> The Pure Data community has proven to be a diverse, inspiring and very > thankful >>> audience. We were overwhelmed by the enthusiasm and professionalism and > >>> sometimes patience of performers and guests as well. >>> It was the first time for most of the team to be involved in any kind > of event >>> of this scale. We have gained a tremendous amount of experience through > hosting >>> it. Those who have been to Weimar/Berlin for the convention will agree > when I >>> conclude that it was a great success. >>> http://www.uni-weimar.de/medien/wiki/PDCON:Testimonials >>> Never the less I'd like to take some time to critically assess the >>> convention giving future hosts the opportunity to build up on our > experience. >>> >>> CONFERENCE: Using the openconf system proved to be a choice that helped > >>> tremendously to structure and guide through the submission and paper > review >>> process. In fact I would try to use the same system for concerts and > the >>> exhibition as well. >>> The peer review process is augmenting the quality of the papers and is > giving >>> the conference and publication a higher academic relevance. It seemed > unfair to >>> ask for finished papers to be reviewed (and possibly rejected) > that's why we >>> asked for extended abstracts for the review. It turned out to be hard > for the >>> reviewers to fully assess the relevance and quality of the paper from > just >>> reading the extended abstract. I now think that it would have been > better to let >>> the reviewer read the full papers. After all most of the papers – once > written – >>> may also be submitted to other conferences such as ICMC or Linux Audio. > A >>> bar-camp day could have complemented the more official conference part > to give >>> latest developments and impromptu idea-sharing its space. All though it > was part >>> of the plan we failed to provide a live-stream of the conference, > partly because >>> of our lack of know-how, limited resources in time and the inability of > the >>> institution to provide the necessary installations. At the forums and > Q&A >>> sessions an IRC chat or twitter hashtag projected could have improved > audience >>> participation. >>> >>> WORKSHOPS: In my opinion it has been a wise decision to organize most > workshops >>> on an open, registration-free basis. This saved us from managing > registrations >>> and I know from experience that it is frustrating having to exclude > possible >>> participants because of a full class when in the end some of the > registered ones >>> decide not to show up. That happens especially when participation is > free of >>> charge. The cooperation with the Bauhaus Summer School wasn't > trivial in its >>> execution but made sense organisational and financial. >>> >>> CONCERTS: It would have been impossible to endeavor in such a venture > like the >>> Pd-Convention without the support by the Studio for Electroacoustic > Music. >>> Consequently the concerts were very well organized and a real highlight > of every >>> day. It would have been much easier to organize though if the exact > demands of >>> the musicians would have been clear from the submission stage. Using a > web-form >>> or the openconf could have made that more straightforward. Making clear > that the >>> musician is responsible for everything until the specified mixer input > for >>> themselves would have made things clearer from the beginning. >>> >>> EXHIBITION: The exhibition was certainly the least prepared part simply > because >>> the venue was unclear just until two weeks prior to the event. > Unfortunate was >>> that the venue wasn't open at all times which happened due to >>> misunderstandings and possibly not enough controlling. >>> >>> FUNDING: Getting the necessary funding was certainly the issue I > personally >>> spent the most time on. We had an overall budget of around 17.000 EUR. > This >>> doesn't take the value of things and services into account the > university >>> gave us for free, that is all the equipment and the lecture > halls/concert venues >>> and neither my own regular salary as employee of the university. > Roughly 10k of >>> the Budget came from different funds at the university and the ministry > for >>> economics and were bound to specific aspects of the convention. The > rest was >>> covered by the sponsors. That budget is less than a third of what the > convention >>> in Montréal had available. >>> >>> EXPENSES: We spent most of the budget supporting our participants. The > biggest >>> expense there was covering for the accomodation, followed by a > contribution >>> (around 100,- €) towards the travel expenses for the participating > artists >>> (those either performing or exhibiting). The accomodation costs turned > out to be >>> about 2500 Eur more expensive than necessary since we had to pay for > those >>> participants who reserved the hostel through the online sign-up and > then decided >>> neither to cancel nor to check in. The workshops were handled > separately through >>> the Bauhaus-Summer School. Further expenses were catering, printing, > renting a >>> car for transport and so forth. >>> >>> DEMOGRAPHICS: >>> Frankly I've been a bit surprised that the average age wasn't a > bit >>> lower. This certainly has implications on how to accommodate the guests > in the >>> future (youth hostel, again?), but more importantly is to think about > the future >>> user-base if, and when yes: why Pd is deterring for newcomers. >>> And here I'm hoping to get into a discussion (which we should have > had at >>> the convention) >>> >>> There are great programs out there who might make more sense to learn > instead of >>> Pd for certain kind of projects: Processing, Supercollider, > OpenFrameworks. I >>> was taught in university Programs like Freehand, QuarkXpress and > Director, all >>> more or less dead softwares today. In my role as a university educator > I ask >>> myself what makes the most sense to teach; what persists and where do > the >>> students learn concepts that will help them master other environments > yet to >>> come. The BSD License and Pd's open source community is making sure > that it >>> won't die because of a companies merger (like Freehand from the > list above). >>> Thinks like that IOhannes is practically the only overall dev for Gem > aren't >>> making it more comfortable. >>> Yet I see that Pd meets for many of the young artists exactly that > level of >>> abstraction to be easily picked up while having the maximum amount of > freedom in >>> the creativity without the presets that could hinder your expression. >>> Combine that with the real-time experience tweaking and tinkering until > it works >>> is ace. I personally find beauty in the dataflow paradigm which can be > nicely >>> put in context with cybernetic flowcharts of systems interconnected > through >>> input and output. >>> >>> When I find artist like Lukas Buschfeld presenting his prints printed > by a >>> custom large scale dot matrix printer which is programmed in and run by > Pd >>> entirely (plus a little Arduino) I'm stunned. Look at the prints: >>> http://lucasbuschfeld.com/index.php?cat=graphic >>> >>> In an attempt to improve the first impression you get when checking out > Pd >>> I've been experimenting with vimeo gathering Pd based works in a > group: >>> http://vimeo.com/groups/puredata/ >>> >>> When you look at a few other OSS Audio related softwares i find their > websites >>> to be very clear and well structured >>> http://musescore.org/ >>> http://www.iannix.org/ >>> http://ardour.org/ >>> >>> Now compare. It's a great ressource but plone can certainly look > nerdy and >>> cluttered: >>> http://puredata.info/ >>> >>> In my classes I am shocked to see that the majority of the young > students have >>> trouble setting up their mail client in a way that they efficiently can > use the >>> mailinglist - if they know what a mail client is at all. Facebook seems > to >>> replace this more and more, but I'm strongly opposed to accepting > that. >>> The Pure Data group on Facebook is not what the Mailinglist is: >>> http://www.facebook.com/groups/4729684494/ >>> I think that a new kind of digital divide is happening silently between > the now >>> adolescent nerdy natives and the young > instant-web-app-social-connectedness >>> generation who think that there is no internet beyond the web. The > forum for now >>> is a kind of a bridge between those worlds, it certainly would be > interesting to >>> know the demographics of the users in all four channels: mailinglist, > forum, >>> facebook and IRC. >>> >>> I'll leave it at this hoping to spark a little discussion on the > list now >>> for example about how Pd can become more attractive in our very own > interest not >>> to loose a future user base not only for the next convention. Also > I'd be >>> interested to hear where the next convention will take place ;) >>> >>> MN >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> [email protected] mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> [email protected] mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. > _______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
