>________________________________ > From: Leandro da Mota Damasceno <[email protected]> >To: Jonathan Wilkes <[email protected]> >Cc: Pierre-Olivier Boulant <[email protected]>; pd-list <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 2:40 PM >Subject: Re: [PD] [announce] Integra Live 1.5 released > > >So if we wanted to improve the GUI we would have to drop tcl/tk all together >or make it messy and heavy?
Depends on which features of the interface you want to improve. Ivica improved the logic that controls when scrollbars appear in a patch in Pd-l2ork, as well as more efficient movement and manipulation of iemguis. However, stuff like gradients in a patch, zooming on a canvas, better handling of fonts, and many other issues require "messes" of code. -Jonathan > > > > >On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Jonathan Wilkes <[email protected]> wrote: > >>________________________________ >> >>> From: Leandro da Mota Damasceno <[email protected]> >>>To: Pierre-Olivier Boulant <[email protected]> >>>Cc: pd-list <[email protected]> >>>Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 12:33 PM >> >>>Subject: Re: [PD] [announce] Integra Live 1.5 released >>> >>> >> >>>The GUI is beautiful!!!!! That's Apache Flex? I don't think we can maket >>>tcl/tk look like that on PD, can we? >> >> >>It's not that you can't do that in tk, it's just that tk will get in the way >>of you doing that at nearly >>every turn. For example, here's the code you'd need to draw a gradient on a >>canvas: >> >>http://wiki.tcl.tk/6100 >> >>Buttons would have to be gifs or bitmaps created in some other program (or on >>the fly with some >>hacky code similar to the gradient stuff), unless you use tcl/tk 8.6 in which >>case you could use >>pngs. You might be able to use the half-implemented tk theming engine to get >>a scrollbar that >>looks like the one in Integra, but you'd probably end up using pngs or >>something for the items in >>the Module Library, or else pull your hair out trying to figure out how to >>get the theme to look >>like that on all platforms when all platforms do _not_ have the same building >>blocks for their >>widgets. For Pd'ers who like the stripped down, 1990s look it is >>serendipitous, because that is >>all they can get without someone doing an inordinate amount of work to make it >>look any other way. (Just find a gui made with tk that looks anything like >>Integra.) >> >>But I do have a question about: >> >> >>http://www.integralive.org/ >> >>Specifically, the png accompanying "Turnkey Audio Processing"-- specifically >>the outputs >>of GranularDelay1 going to the inputs of StereoReverb1. Look quickly then >>answer the >>question: >>Does out1 connect to in1 or in2? >> >>I'm not against bezier curves, but the GUI engine must handle them with care >>or they'll cause >>unnecessary problems. >> >> >>Bezier curves make it more difficult for the user to anticipate ambiguous >>overlaps with cords. >>The user makes connections which are obvious in his/her mind as well as >>obvious when they do >>the physical work with the mouse of connecting each outlet to each inlet. >>(Btw, the user's >>mouse makes a trip between outlet and inlet that is a straight line, so the >>physical action >>no longer correlates with the drawn representation.) Then the mind tricks >>him/her into thinking that the GUI diagram must be as clear as the mental >>diagram because >>all the steps leading up to the final result were clear. (This is still a >>problem in Pd, but slightly less >>so because the user is more likely to guess correctly what a straight line >>between a and b looks >>like, and they can consequently anticipate ambiguous overlaps and attempt to >>avoid them before >>making them.) Then the user goes and teaches a class, or runs an errand, and >>comes back to the patch >>but the mental picture is now gone. So he/she recreates the mental image >>from the GUI image, >>which is ambiguous, which requires either more work to remember the "real" >>connection or >>actually manipulating the GUI cord with the mouse to see what really connects >>to what. Requiring >>either type of work breaks with the philosophy of being able to deduce what >>the patch does simply >>by looking at it. (Btw, I'm still not sure whether your cords overlap or >>not.) >> >> >>So cords should try to repel each other in such a situation, or at least >>color themselves differently >>when they do in fact overlap. Otherwise you end up with the equivalent of a >>scheme IDE that >>sometimes matches a closing parenthesis with two "candidate" opening >>parentheses but doesn't >>indicate which is the actual match. Nobody would tolerate such an ambiguity >>in a text-based >>langauge. We shouldn't in GUIs, either. >> >>-Jonathan >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Pierre-Olivier Boulant <[email protected]> >>>wrote: >>> >>>No problem about the report. :) >>>> >>>>I'm here if you need further testing too. Look me up on IRC freenode >>>>#dataflow. I'm "pob" over there. >>>> >>>>For what it's worth, the only interaction I have with the GUI is when >>>>closing. I can actually click on the buttons of the "save" pop up window. >>>> >>>>Cheers >>>>Pierre-Olivier >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On 18/01/2013 17:15, Jamie Bullock wrote: >>>> >>>>On 18 Jan 2013, at 15:48, Pierre-Olivier Boulant <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>>It looks very nice indeed. >>>>>> >>>>>>Running the Windows version, I have a problem with the mouse. >>>>>>I can't interact at all with the GUI. I can click on the menu bar (File >>>>>>Edit View etc.), this much works but that's it. The GUI does not respond >>>>>>to any clicks. >>>>>> >>>>>>Windows 7, 64bit OS. >>>>>> >>>>>I'm sorry to hear that. I must admit, we haven't yet tested on 64-bit >>>>>Windows, so it's possibly to do with that. >>>>> >>>>>I hope you don't mind but I've added your report to the UserVoice forum: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>http://integralive.uservoice.com/forums/58883-general/suggestions/3565091-mouse-interaction-not-working-on-64-bit-windows >>>>> >>>>>If you "vote" for the issue, you will get an automatic notification when >>>>>it is resolved. >>>>> >>>>>Jamie >>>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>[email protected] mailing list >>>>UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>[email protected] mailing list >>>UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
