cool, could you readapt the patch then? I'd appreciate that a lot as I'm just not being able to nail it. It'd be really careful. Thanks
2013/10/6 Mike Moser-Booth <[email protected]> > Yeah, I tend to use them for feedback loops because they only need to be > the block size. Though now that I think about it, you don't need them in > this case. You can just feed [vd~] in to [delwrite~] without that silly > order forcing I did. > > .mmb > > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> awesome, thanks a lot, really helpful. I was suspecting something like >> that, but couldn't get to this implementation. >> >> And then, one question, doesn't the feedback given by tabsend >> theoretically count as a second delay line? >> >> cheers >> >> >> 2013/10/6 Mike Moser-Booth <[email protected]> >> >>> It's not that either implementation is wrong, they are just two ways of >>> doing the same thing. The version that uses two delay lines is the Direct >>> Form I. By doing some rearranging of the filter, you convert it to the >>> Direct Form II, which only uses one delay line. The end results are the >>> same, just one is more efficient. >>> >>> Look inside [pd allpass] in the attached patch for an ASCII art >>> illustration of it. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> on curtis roads' computer music tutorial, page 418, it shows the same >>>> formula, but the figure of the design seems to contradict it. I'm confused. >>>> I don't seem to get the same result with one delay line. maybe if you send >>>> me a patch that sounds the same as cyclone's allpass I can check it. >>>> >>>> cheers >>>> >>>> >>>> 2013/10/5 Alexandre Torres Porres <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>> i dont think there is one way or proper way of doing this, and it is a >>>>> general form, from an equation you can find in other references. So, I >>>>> don't know why, but Max/Cyclone's allpass use this one: y(n) = -g x(n) + >>>>> x(n)-(DR/1000) + g y(n)-(DR/1000) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/10/5 Chris Clepper <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>>> That means cyclone's allpass~ is not done properly. Why not do it >>>>>> the standard and more efficient way? When it comes time to do dozens of >>>>>> allpasses it will make a difference. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> but this way it won't be the same as cyclone's [allpass~], the way I >>>>>>> did it is equivalent to it (and max's). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2013/10/3 Chris Clepper <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You only need one delay line for the allpass. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> feedforward = input * -gain >>>>>>>> feedback = delayout * gain >>>>>>>> delayin = input + feedback >>>>>>>> output = delayout + feedforward >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/effects.html#Reverberation >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> i hope i guess i figured it out on how to implement it with delay >>>>>>>>> lines. see attachment. And I realize you can't do this with [fexpr~] >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> [biquad~] because the sample delay length is kinda big for that, >>>>>>>>> right? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2013/10/3 Alexandre Torres Porres <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> cool, but do you know how to implement cyclone's [allpass~] with >>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It's really unclear to me what is the relation of this pass >>>>>>>>>> filter with the one you can generate with biquad coefficients, or >>>>>>>>>> with raw >>>>>>>>>> poles/zeros objects for that matter. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Well, one way or another, it's also unclear to me how to do it >>>>>>>>>> with delay lines. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> seems that it is related to a comb filter, right? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2013/10/2 Chris Clepper <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Allpass for reverb is easy to do with delwrite~ and vd~. I used >>>>>>>>>>> 32 of them today to recreate a famous 'deep space' reverb. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> hi there, i see the biquad's coefficients can be set as an >>>>>>>>>>>> allpass filter, generated by frequency and "Q" parameters. But can >>>>>>>>>>>> it do >>>>>>>>>>>> the same as cyclone's [allpass~] filer? If yes, them how since the >>>>>>>>>>>> parameters for [allpass~] are different (delaytime and such). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One way or another, I guess that my real question is: how to >>>>>>>>>>>> implement [allpass~] from vanilla objects? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> [email protected] mailing list >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
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