On 2015-10-17 05:57 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > Fred Jan, > Now that's interesting. Thanks for testing it. > > What happens with larger data sets? One thousand, ten thousand, etc.
Same result for 10.000 items; first the bang, then the result from the dump. No interruption of the sound. > > And a question for Ivica, > When you were using Max, did you mess with any global settings? I > remember reading docs about > a setting that could affect this (but I can't remember what it is atm). > > -Jonathan Fred Jan > > > > On Saturday, October 17, 2015 11:06 AM, Ivica Bukvic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Threaded coll does the same because IIRC it enqueues events it cannot > execute until the file is loaded, except, this makes it fall out of sync > with the rest of the system in that case, but then again that is why > coll has "done loading bang" outlet. > Also, I think what will test Max's threaded nature (or not) is loading a > huge coll file with small signal vector size and seeing if it drops > samples. If it doesn't, unless there are fundamental differences in the > audio engine between Pd and Max , this would suggest it is threaded. > Another (easier?) way is to ask someone at Cycling74 :-) > -- > Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. > Associate Professor > Computer Music > ICAT Senior Fellow > Director -- DISIS, L2Ork > Virginia Tech > School of Performing Arts – 0141 > Blacksburg, VA 24061 > (540) 231-6139 > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > www.performingarts.vt.edu <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/> > disis.icat.vt.edu <http://disis.icat.vt.edu/> > l2ork.icat.vt.edu <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/> > Ico.bukvic.net <http://ico.bukvic.net/> > On Oct 17, 2015 10:59 AM, "Fred Jan Kraan" <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Hi Jonathan, > > > Hi Fred Jan, > > I suppose what I am asking is if the read/write bang outlet happens > > depth-first > > in Max, or not. > > The test patch in Max 5 looked more or less like this: > [bang( > | > [t b b] > | \ > | [read test.coll( > | | > [dump( | > \ / > [coll] > | | > [print] > > [coll] and [print] have only one inlet. The right line is connected to > the third outlet. A collection (100 pairs) is present in the test.coll. > The bang is printed first, the list after that. > > If I interpret this correctly, the [read test.coll( is executed depth > first. Just like in cyclone. > > > > > If it does not, then it means Max _is_ sacrificing predictability for > > performance > > in that case. As long as we can predict that it will not crash, I > think > > at least having that option would be important for compatibility. > > > > -Jonathan > > > > > Fred Jan > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 17, 2015 7:21 AM, Fred Jan Kraan > > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 2015-10-17 06:38 AM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote: > >> > >> Hi Ivica, > >> > >> When we discussed the threading feature before, I advocated > against it > >> since > >> it breaks determinism. > > > > There is an other reason for not adding threading to the coll > object. In > > the past I did some testing and found it a quite convoluted object. It > > allows several types of indices (float, symbol) and has messages > > operating on only these subsets. I tried to document this in the help > > patch. > > Large collections and threading may be useful, but better suited > for an > > object with a more consistent set of operations, and just one key type > > at a time to make results more predictable. > >> > >> However, the Max/MSP documentation (as well as the outlet interface > > itself) > >> suggests that Max's implementation is threaded, too. Why else > would you > >> need a bang to signal when it has finished reading the file, for > example? > >> > >> Can someone test how it works in practice in Max? > > > > The testing I did was for functionality, and I found cyclone/coll was > > very much like Max/coll. Large collection loading was not in scope. > >> > >> I'm in favor of the default behavior for the sake of > >> backwards-compatibility within > >> Pd. But if Max is actually threading the reads/writes, that > would make > >> this an > >> important general feature for Max compatibility. > > > > Compatibility is important, but not at any price. There are several > > objects in Max and cyclone which are troubled by > > 'Swiss-army-knife-syndrome'. Coll is certainly one of them. This makes > > improving it low priority for me (with the exception for crashing > issues). > > Large collection support can be better implemented with a clear, > > ortogonal operation set in a new object. > >> > >> -Jonathan > >> > > The latest source is in the SVN repository and at > > http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases > > <http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases>(you can ignore the > > '(unreleased)' postfix. It refuses to go away for now). It contains > > several bug-fixes and help-patches based on the Pd-l2ork versions. > > Current planning is to leave the SVN repository as it is now and > start > > a Git repository based on the good work of IOhannes. But for now > this is > > just planning. > > > > Greetings, > > > > Fred Jan > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> On Friday, October 16, 2015 11:50 PM, Ivica Bukvic <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > >> > >> > >> cool = coll > >> -- > >> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. > >> Associate Professor > >> Computer Music > >> ICAT Senior Fellow > >> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork > >> Virginia Tech > >> School of Performing Arts – 0141 > >> Blacksburg, VA 24061 > >> (540) 231-6139 > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> > >> www.performingarts.vt.edu <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/> > <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/> > >> disis.icat.vt.edu <http://disis.icat.vt.edu/> > <http://disis.icat.vt.edu/> > >> l2ork.icat.vt.edu <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/> > <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/> > >> Ico.bukvic.net <http://ico.bukvic.net/> <http://ico.bukvic.net/> > >> On Oct 16, 2015 11:48 PM, "Ivica Bukvic" <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > >> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>>> wrote: > >> > >> I am sure this has been covered on this list before--if it is not > >> too much of a trouble where can one get the new version of > cyclone? > >> Also, there are some improvements on pd-l2ork side of things that > >> I've implemented that may detract from Max behavior but also > offers > >> other benefits. For instance, coll object can be threaded and as > >> such allows loading of large files without dropping samples, > albeit > >> at the expense of determinacy, so one in these cases must rely on > >> outputting done loading bang signal before working with the cool > >> object. This option is fully backwards compatible and the default > >> behavior is non-threaded. It would be great if we could have those > >> merged so that we don't have to maintain two separate versions of > >> the cyclone library. > >> Best, > >> -- > >> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. > >> Associate Professor > >> Computer Music > >> ICAT Senior Fellow > >> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork > >> Virginia Tech > >> School of Performing Arts – 0141 > >> Blacksburg, VA 24061 > >> (540) 231-6139 > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> > >> www.performingarts.vt.edu <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/> > <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/> > >> disis.icat.vt.edu <http://disis.icat.vt.edu/> > <http://disis.icat.vt.edu/> > >> l2ork.icat.vt.edu <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/> > <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/> > >> Ico.bukvic.net <http://ico.bukvic.net/> <http://ico.bukvic.net/> > >> this has been corrected in the new cyclone library > >> > >> actually, both cartopol~ and poltocar~ were "wrong" in the > same way, > >> but for extended 0.42 only poltocar~ was corrected, this > incomplete > >> fix ended up ruining spectral processing that was actually working > >> before that. > >> > >> get the new cyclone, many objects are being corrected > >> > >> cheers > >> > >> 2015-10-16 18:14 GMT-03:00 Gilberto Agostinho via Pd-list > >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>>: > >> > >> Just a little update: the problem is with [cartopol~], its > >> rightmost outlet is outputting the correct value > multiplied by -1. > >> > >> > >> On 16/10/15 22:55, Gilberto Agostinho wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> I believe I found a bug with the objects [cartopol~] and > >> [poltocar~]. Basically, if I would connect both outlets of > >> [cartopol~] to the inlets of [poltocar~], I would > expect to > >> receive the same values as I would input. The problem is > >> that the output of the second outlet of [poltocar~] is > >> multiplied by -1! I tested this with both Pd 0.46.5 and > >> pd-extended 0.43.4 (and this bug isn't present in > Pd-l2Ork). > >> > >> Here is an image of the problem: > >> > > > http://s1.postimg.org/bs79w4d5b/Screenshot_from_2015_10_16_22_50_23.png > >> > >> Is this a known bug? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Gilberto > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> mailing > list > >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> mailing > list > >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> mailing > list > > > >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> mailing list > >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > _______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
