I think that's wierd behavior from phasor~ and line~ that should be fixed (if I can do it withouth breaking compatibility somehow :)
M On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 11:17:40PM +0200, Christof Ressi wrote: > > especially if you use [samplerate~] for converting samples into > > milliseconds. > > See the attached patch for two examples. > > I also think, that the documention of [block~] could be expanded regarding to > how overlapping actually works. I noticed that the behaviour of overlapping > subpatches is one of the most confusing/challenging parts in Pd for > beginners. > > It would probably help to mention that > a) the overlapping blocks are calculated sequentially > b) as a consequence, the calculation for each block happens N times faster (N > = overlap factor). > > This might seem like a truism for programmers and Pd long-time users but it's > not really obvious for beginners! > > Just some ideas that came to my mind. > > > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. April 2016 um 21:33 Uhr > > Von: "Christof Ressi" <[email protected]> > > An: "Miller Puckette" <[email protected]> > > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > Betreff: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.47-0test2 released > > > > > samplerate~ reports the sample rate, not the > > > number of samples per second > > > > I guess that's a matter of definition, which of these two is the actual > > sample rate. [samplerate~] and [iem_samplerate~] have different opinions on > > this subject. ;-) > > > > If one defines 'samplerate' as 'numbers of samples per second', then the > > behaviour of [samplerate~] could lead to some surprise in overlapping FFTs, > > especially if you use [samplerate~] for converting samples into > > milliseconds. > > > > To avoid any potential confusion, I think it's good to just document the > > actual behaviour in the help patch. > > > > > > > > > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. April 2016 um 21:06 Uhr > > > Von: "Miller Puckette" <[email protected]> > > > An: "Christof Ressi" <[email protected]> > > > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > Betreff: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.47-0test2 released > > > > > > Hmm.. now I'm genuinely confused - all that changed last Dec. was that I > > > took > > > out trailing spaces. The actual functionality hasn't changed since 2007. > > > > > > Interior patches having a block~ object providing overlap don't report a > > > higher sample rate - i.e., samplerate~ reports the sample rate, not the > > > number of samples per second (equal to sample rate times overlap). > > > > > > So now I think the existingsamplerate~ object works fine and doens't need > > > changing. > > > > > > cheers > > > Miller > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 08:31:02PM +0200, Christof Ressi wrote: > > > > Are you sure you really want to change the behaviour instead of just > > > > documenting it? Won't this break all overlapping FFTs patches which > > > > rely on a [samplerate~] object? If one wants the 'correct' behaviour > > > > for overlapping, he/she could use [iem_samplerate~] which was designed > > > > for this very purpose... > > > > > > > > > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. April 2016 um 19:49 Uhr > > > > > Von: "Miller Puckette" <[email protected]> > > > > > An: "Christof Ressi" <[email protected]> > > > > > Cc: "Alexandre Torres Porres" <[email protected]>, > > > > > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > > > Betreff: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.47-0test2 released > > > > > > > > > > I fixed the (incorrect) samplerate~ behavior... it should be now > > > > > working > > > > > correctly (and thus can make do with a simpler help file :) > > > > > > > > > > M > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 11:40:25AM +0200, Christof Ressi wrote: > > > > > > Also it would be cool to finally have a help file for > > > > > > [samplerate~], so users are more likely to understand and avoid its > > > > > > pitfalls (mainly with overlapping subpatches). I just made one, see > > > > > > the attachment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just in case you actually plan to include a help patch for > > > > > > [vsnapshot~], it would be great to mention that - unlike [vline~] - > > > > > > it's only sample accurate and not subsample accurate. I could, > > > > > > however, easily make a subsample accurate version of [vsnapshot~] > > > > > > as an abstraction, so I'm wondering if this difference in behaviour > > > > > > is actually on purpose or rather a bug? > > > > > > > > > > > > Christof > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2016 um 06:07 Uhr > > > > > > Von: "Alexandre Torres Porres" <[email protected]> > > > > > > An: "Miller Puckette" <[email protected]> > > > > > > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > > > > Betreff: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.47-0test2 released > > > > > > > > > > > > a few other things I think we could easily sneak into the next > > > > > > release, related to documentation. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1- re-include "paf~" external - it could be brought back now that > > > > > > its patent is over, The F13 example still mentions the existence of > > > > > > this object, so an external should exist or this mention needs to > > > > > > be removed. > > > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1206/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2- there's no help for [vnsapshot~], include one? > > > > > > > > > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1205/[https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1205/] > > > > > > 3- no help file for [clip] > > > > > > > > > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1237/[https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1237/] > > > > > > > > > > > > 4 - There are these 2 midi objects in vanilla ([midirealtimein] & > > > > > > [midiclkin]) that have no help file and are not mentioned in the > > > > > > midi-help.pd file, neither are present in the "MIDI and OSC" > > > > > > section of help-intro.pd > > > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1221[https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1221/] > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-04-27 12:18 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres > > > > > > <[email protected][[email protected]]>: > > > > > > yeah, apple always complains about installing pd, but once you say > > > > > > "hey, it's fine, I'm taking the risk" it never bothers you again - > > > > > > as with vanilla 0.46-7 > > > > > > > > > > > > apparently something changed now and is making things harder > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-04-27 5:15 GMT-03:00 Pierre Guillot > > > > > > <[email protected][[email protected]]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > which alert window?> what is the "same" you are referring to? > > > > > > > > > > > > My mistake, I thought having the same problem than Alexandre (the > > > > > > window saying that the app comes from an unidentified developer). > > > > > > > > > > > > > no matter how many times i tell mac os it is fine to open pd-47 > > > > > > > test, it keeps saying it's from an undentified developer... > > > > > > > anybody else or just me? > > > > > > > > > > > > But in fact my window says that the app comes from the web. I > > > > > > changed the privileges of the app, now PD works fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > [email protected][[email protected]] mailing list > > > > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > > > > > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list[https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > [email protected] mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and > > > > > > account-management -> > > > > > > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list[https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list] > > > > > > > > > > > #N canvas 843 167 447 292 10; > > > > > > #X obj 28 35 samplerate~; > > > > > > #X obj 27 97 samplerate~; > > > > > > #X obj 27 72 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 > > > > > > -1; > > > > > > #X floatatom 27 119 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5; > > > > > > #X msg 26 248 \; pd dsp 1; > > > > > > #N canvas 659 314 450 300 resample 0; > > > > > > #X obj 35 85 samplerate~; > > > > > > #X obj 35 62 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 > > > > > > -1; > > > > > > #X floatatom 35 111 8 0 0 0 - - -, f 8; > > > > > > #X obj 153 112 block~ 64 1 4; > > > > > > #X msg 153 85 set 64 1 \$1; > > > > > > #X floatatom 153 62 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5; > > > > > > #X text 197 60 set resampling factor; > > > > > > #X obj 63 59 loadbang; > > > > > > #X connect 0 0 2 0; > > > > > > #X connect 1 0 0 0; > > > > > > #X connect 4 0 3 0; > > > > > > #X connect 5 0 4 0; > > > > > > #X connect 7 0 0 0; > > > > > > #X restore 25 186 pd resample; > > > > > > #N canvas 624 194 811 437 overlap 0; > > > > > > #X obj 37 87 samplerate~; > > > > > > #X obj 37 64 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 > > > > > > -1; > > > > > > #X floatatom 37 113 8 0 0 0 - - -, f 8; > > > > > > #X floatatom 135 61 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5; > > > > > > #X text 179 59 set overlap; > > > > > > #X obj 36 153 bang~; > > > > > > #X obj 36 204 timer; > > > > > > #X msg 135 87 set 1024 \$1 1; > > > > > > #X floatatom 36 320 8 0 0 1 ms - -, f 8; > > > > > > #X msg 83 203 1024; > > > > > > #X obj 83 228 /; > > > > > > #X obj 124 203 samplerate~; > > > > > > #X obj 36 175 t b b b b; > > > > > > #X floatatom 83 276 8 0 0 1 ms - -, f 8; > > > > > > #X floatatom 124 228 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5; > > > > > > #X obj 83 250 * 1000; > > > > > > #X text 162 276 This the theoretical duration of a block of 1024 > > > > > > samples > > > > > > for the global samplerate; > > > > > > #X text 214 204 global sample rate \, no deliberate up/downsampling > > > > > > ; > > > > > > #X obj 60 63 loadbang; > > > > > > #X obj 135 118 block~ 1024 4 1; > > > > > > #X text 118 320 This is the actual duration. Pd has to speed up the > > > > > > computation to create all the additional blocks needed for > > > > > > overlapping. > > > > > > This means that Pd is actually upsampling by a factor of N (= > > > > > > overlap > > > > > > factor)., f 69; > > > > > > #X text 118 365 [samplerate~] \, however \, does NOT reflect this > > > > > > kind > > > > > > of implicit upsampling!; > > > > > > #X connect 0 0 2 0; > > > > > > #X connect 1 0 0 0; > > > > > > #X connect 3 0 7 0; > > > > > > #X connect 5 0 12 0; > > > > > > #X connect 6 0 8 0; > > > > > > #X connect 7 0 19 0; > > > > > > #X connect 9 0 10 0; > > > > > > #X connect 10 0 15 0; > > > > > > #X connect 11 0 14 0; > > > > > > #X connect 11 0 10 1; > > > > > > #X connect 12 0 6 0; > > > > > > #X connect 12 1 6 1; > > > > > > #X connect 12 2 9 0; > > > > > > #X connect 12 3 11 0; > > > > > > #X connect 15 0 13 0; > > > > > > #X connect 18 0 0 0; > > > > > > #X restore 26 217 pd overlap; > > > > > > #X text 23 155 [samplerate~] + [block~]:; > > > > > > #X text 118 216 but it doesn't reflect overlapping, f 37; > > > > > > #X text 115 186 [samplerate~] reflects up/downsampling; > > > > > > #X text 52 70 bang to retrieve current samplerate; > > > > > > #X text 115 35 get the samplerate in a subpatch; > > > > > > #X connect 1 0 3 0; > > > > > > #X connect 2 0 1 0; > > > > > > > > > > > #N canvas 805 271 655 300 10; > > > > > > #X obj 21 163 vsnapshot~; > > > > > > #X obj 131 3 loadbang; > > > > > > #X obj 179 24 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 > > > > > > -1; > > > > > > #X obj 20 1 bang~; > > > > > > #X obj 51 125 del; > > > > > > #X floatatom 21 185 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5; > > > > > > #X floatatom 89 126 5 0 0 1 scroll_me - -, f 5; > > > > > > #X msg 254 51 \; pd dsp 1; > > > > > > #X text 21 206 NOT subsample accurate; > > > > > > #X obj 21 90 vline~; > > > > > > #X msg 21 66 0 \, 64 \$1; > > > > > > #X obj 21 42 f; > > > > > > #X obj 21 21 t b b; > > > > > > #X obj 131 24 t b b; > > > > > > #X obj 163 52 samplerate~; > > > > > > #X msg 131 53 64; > > > > > > #X obj 131 77 /; > > > > > > #X obj 131 99 * 1000; > > > > > > #X floatatom 70 43 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5; > > > > > > #X connect 0 0 5 0; > > > > > > #X connect 1 0 13 0; > > > > > > #X connect 2 0 13 0; > > > > > > #X connect 3 0 12 0; > > > > > > #X connect 4 0 0 0; > > > > > > #X connect 6 0 4 1; > > > > > > #X connect 9 0 0 0; > > > > > > #X connect 10 0 9 0; > > > > > > #X connect 11 0 10 0; > > > > > > #X connect 12 0 11 0; > > > > > > #X connect 12 1 4 0; > > > > > > #X connect 13 0 15 0; > > > > > > #X connect 13 1 14 0; > > > > > > #X connect 13 1 7 0; > > > > > > #X connect 14 0 16 1; > > > > > > #X connect 15 0 16 0; > > > > > > #X connect 16 0 17 0; > > > > > > #X connect 17 0 18 0; > > > > > > #X connect 18 0 11 1; > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > [email protected] mailing list > > > > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > > > > > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > [email protected] mailing list > > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > > > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > [email protected] mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > #N canvas 773 411 790 516 10; > #X text 14 26 making a ramp inside overlapping subpatch; > #X obj 40 218 phasor~; > #X obj 270 243 vline~; > #N canvas 0 50 450 250 (subpatch) 0; > #X array \$0-plot 256 float 3; > #A 0 0.00390625 0.0078125 0.0117188 0.015625 0.0195313 0.0234375 0.0273438 > 0.03125 0.0351563 0.0390625 0.0429688 0.046875 0.0507813 0.0546875 > 0.0585938 0.0625 0.0664063 0.0703125 0.0742188 0.078125 0.0820313 0.0859375 > 0.0898438 0.09375 0.0976563 0.101563 0.105469 0.109375 0.113281 0.117188 > 0.121094 0.125 0.128906 0.132813 0.136719 0.140625 0.144531 0.148438 > 0.152344 0.15625 0.160156 0.164063 0.167969 0.171875 0.175781 0.179688 > 0.183594 0.1875 0.191406 0.195313 0.199219 0.203125 0.207031 0.210938 > 0.214844 0.21875 0.222656 0.226563 0.230469 0.234375 0.238281 0.242188 > 0.246094 0.25 0.253906 0.257813 0.261719 0.265625 0.269531 0.273438 > 0.277344 0.28125 0.285156 0.289063 0.292969 0.296875 0.300781 0.304688 > 0.308594 0.3125 0.316406 0.320313 0.324219 0.328125 0.332031 0.335938 > 0.339844 0.34375 0.347656 0.351563 0.355469 0.359375 0.363281 0.367188 > 0.371094 0.375 0.378906 0.382813 0.386719 0.390625 0.394531 0.398438 > 0.402344 0.40625 0.410156 0.414063 0.417969 0.421875 0.425781 0.429688 > 0.433594 0.4375 0.441406 0.445313 0.449219 0.453125 0.457031 0.460938 > 0.464844 0.46875 0.472656 0.476563 0.480469 0.484375 0.488281 0.492188 > 0.496094 0.5 0.503906 0.507813 0.511719 0.515625 0.519531 0.523438 > 0.527344 0.53125 0.535156 0.539063 0.542969 0.546875 0.550781 0.554688 > 0.558594 0.5625 0.566406 0.570313 0.574219 0.578125 0.582031 0.585938 > 0.589844 0.59375 0.597656 0.601563 0.605469 0.609375 0.613281 0.617188 > 0.621094 0.625 0.628906 0.632813 0.636719 0.640625 0.644531 0.648438 > 0.652344 0.65625 0.660156 0.664063 0.667969 0.671875 0.675781 0.679688 > 0.683594 0.6875 0.691406 0.695313 0.699219 0.703125 0.707031 0.710938 > 0.714844 0.71875 0.722656 0.726563 0.730469 0.734375 0.738281 0.742188 > 0.746094 0.75 0.753906 0.757813 0.761719 0.765625 0.769531 0.773438 > 0.777344 0.78125 0.785156 0.789063 0.792969 0.796875 0.800781 0.804688 > 0.808594 0.8125 0.816406 0.820313 0.824219 0.828125 0.832031 0.835938 > 0.839844 0.84375 0.847656 0.851563 0.855469 0.859375 0.863281 0.867188 > 0.871094 0.875 0.878906 0.882813 0.886719 0.890625 0.894531 0.898438 > 0.902344 0.90625 0.910156 0.914063 0.917969 0.921875 0.925781 0.929688 > 0.933594 0.9375 0.941406 0.945313 0.949219 0.953125 0.957031 0.960938 > 0.964844 0.96875 0.972656 0.976563 0.980469 0.984375 0.988281 0.992188 > 0.996094 1; > #X coords 0 1 256 0 200 140 1 0 0; > #X restore 258 324 graph; > #X obj 33 336 block~ 256 4 1; > #X msg 88 183 0; > #X obj 21 72 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 > -1; > #X obj 41 123 samplerate~; > #X obj 21 98 t b b b; > #X obj 42 181 / 256; > #X obj 31 264 tabwrite~ \$0-plot; > #X obj 42 151 * 4; > #X text 74 153 multiply by overlap!; > #X msg 268 214 0 \, 1 \$1; > #X obj 261 271 tabwrite~ \$0-plot; > #X obj 247 73 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 > -1; > #X obj 296 121 samplerate~; > #X obj 247 99 t b b b; > #X obj 294 144 * 4; > #X text 324 143 multiply by overlap!; > #X obj 268 168 /; > #X msg 264 125 256; > #X obj 268 190 * 1000; > #X connect 1 0 10 0; > #X connect 2 0 14 0; > #X connect 5 0 1 1; > #X connect 6 0 8 0; > #X connect 7 0 11 0; > #X connect 8 0 10 0; > #X connect 8 1 7 0; > #X connect 8 2 5 0; > #X connect 9 0 1 0; > #X connect 11 0 9 0; > #X connect 13 0 2 0; > #X connect 15 0 17 0; > #X connect 16 0 18 0; > #X connect 17 0 14 0; > #X connect 17 1 21 0; > #X connect 17 2 16 0; > #X connect 18 0 20 1; > #X connect 20 0 22 0; > #X connect 21 0 20 0; > #X connect 22 0 13 0; _______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
