I see, then maybe we are better off without umbrella term and just refer
to subpatches and abstractions as "subpatches and abstractions".
m.
On 12.08.2018 19:58, Miller Puckette wrote:
Trouble might be that there are other forms of subwindows (array, text) that
aren't patches. So we'd need a term for 'a subwindow that's a patch'. Maybe
'patch subwindow'? But that's so close to 'subpatch' that it would make
everythig worse I think.
cheers
M
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 07:00:36PM +0200, Max wrote:
May I propose subwindow as an umbrella term for both abstractions and
subpatches?
Both terms should be either hyphenated or not. I am fine with not
hyphenating them, but as a native German speaker I might have a bias towards
sticking words together.
m.
On 12.08.2018 18:45, Miller Puckette wrote:
Well, (adopting for the moment subpatch/abstraction for the larger class and
one-off subpatch for the more specific one of a non-abstraction)...
I imagine that more things are true of subpatch/abstractions (they have
subwindows, inlets, outlets; and their run-time semantics are identical)
than are true of either subset alone (of which we may say that saving and
loading, and $-argument handling act differently).
So it's convenient to have some name or other for 'abstraction/subpatch'...
but if just calling this a 'subpatch' is confusing, perhaps we can think of
another term.
cheers
Miller
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 02:23:15PM +0200, Max wrote:
Hi Miller, thanks for chiming in.
On 12.08.2018 00:54, Miller Puckette wrote:
I think the best terminology is "sub-patch" for either an abstraction or
for a one-off subpatch. (But then we probably need a better term for 'one-off';
maybe 'ad hoc'?
may I ask the rationale for it?
I believe a clearly defined and consistent terminology is very important for
people trying to understand the manuals and helpfiles.
The definitions in 2.7 and 2.7.1 are good, and I think the terms "subpatch"
and "abstraction" are good too.
** subpatch ** is like a folder structure where things can be put into and
stuffed away.
** abstraction ** is exactly what it sounds like. The term doesn't try to be
what a "class" is in other languages, I think that's smart.
The established definitions give us a clear distinction between externals,
abstractions and subpatches.
Now I just wish the documentation would be consistent with those established
terms and not adding confusion by using the terms differently.
m.
cheers
Miller
On Tue, Aug 07, 2018 at 01:44:18PM +0200, Max wrote:
In the Pd documentation the word
abstraction is found 1859 times
subpatch is found 2142 times
sub-patch is found 45 times
subwindow is found 24 times
sub-window is found 1 time (that's in the html document, where it occurs 3
times hyphenated and 1 time not hyphenated)
For reference: Definitions of the terms subpatch and abstraction can be
found in paragraphs 2.7 and 2.7.1 of the documentation.
The terms however are consistently used inconsistent.
in 2.7.2 "Graph-on-parent subpatches" the illustration shows an abstraction,
not a subpatch. The text first talks about an abstraction and then
continues: "When the sub-patch is closed, all controls in it appear on the
object instead; so the number box in the sub-patch in the example above is
the same one as you see in the box. "
Even weirder, there is a definition of the term "abstraction" in the
clone-help.pd which goes as follows: "a patch loaded as an object in another
patch"
but in the same patch the clones abstraction is named "clone-subpatch.pd".
Is there something I am missing here?
m.
On 05.08.2018 12:01, Max wrote:
OK, let me try myself, please correct me:
An abstraction is a Pd patch which is used like an object in another Pd
patch.
A subpatch is saved within the main patch and is constructed with [pd
{name}]. Multiple subpatches with the same name may coexist.
Subwindow is the umbrella term for both of the prior terms.
If someone can confirm that the above definition is true, I will make
some pull requests to the documentation/ help files since it isn't
consistent. The pd~-help for example.
On 04.08.2018 14:05, Max wrote:
In the helpfiles and on this list the three words
'abstraction'
'subpatch' or 'sub-patch'
'subwindow'
are used. could someone provide a definition of those? I suspect
they aren't used in a consistent way throughout the documentation.
m.
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