On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Karl Glazebrook <[email protected]> wrote: > In general I broadly agree with this approach, some specific comments below > > > On 2 Oct 2017, at 2:11 am, Chris Marshall <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > There are papers covering COS and its > features and implementation at > > https://github.com/CObjectSystem/COS/tree/master/doc > > > > What does COS offer that C++ and Obj-C do not?
See below, but pecifically, it has multi-methods which are the basis of the Julia language type system and implementation. > In designing PDLNG one has to clear discuss and decide ‘what is it for’ ? I > think it is fairly obvious that the scipy ecosystem has taken over the > world, it has passed a critical mass in the last 3 years, and one must view > it in that context [confession: I use scipy, I have too. All my students and > collaborators do!]. > > There could be multiple goals: > > - keep existing PDL code working for as long as possible? [this is a very > conservative goal; on the other hand without refresh there will be bitrot as > operating systems update] > > > PDL 2.x is already in stable/bitrot-prevention mode. > > > Sure, but I was thinking more of the ten year horizon. e.g. when perl6 takes > over is it total-rewrite or die? There may not be legacy computers to run > old PDLs on! See X-DL comments below. > - to be able to do all the things that scipy does [graphics, ML libraries, > jupyter, etc.] but using Perl syntax? [this can be way more efficient and > flexible, but may not be enough to justify a major effort. Unless there is a > clever way to plug-and-play the ecosystem? I certainly would be very happy > if I could write PDL code and call matplotlib in a jupyter notebook] > > > One goal for the next generation PDL was to be able to > have it callable from any language with a C FFI capability > so that I could be language agnostic and still have PDL > computing capabilities. > > > Then the trick is to define what is meant by ‘PDL computing capabilities’. > Is it the threading for example? See below re Julia and X-DL > - to be able to do something better and new c.f. julia/python/R? [Ambitious. > What?] > > > As I mentioned already, Julia maps very well into the new data > language features I was wanting for PDL Next Generation: > - you can call Python including NumPy and matplotlib from julia > - JIT compiling is already there > - I saw data frame support for julia > - iJulia Jupiter notebooks already done > (tutorials for julia are written in them) > - julia has a friendly matlab-ish syntax and language > > > Then what is missing? See below re X-DL > A related question would be where does Perl6 fit in to this? [sigh. If you > ask me Perl6 killed Perl.] > > > Between python/numpy, R, and now julia, it seems > clear to me that perl is not the language most > people look at for scientific and data computation. > And, to be honest, the part about the Perl Data > Language that I liked was the *Data Language* and > not specifically perl which happened to be the > language I was using at the time. > > > Sure. But again we need to identify what it is we need to preserve here > under ‘Data Language’. I am greatly interested in your opinion on this? More > JIT type compilation was one thing I think you want. > > > > My goals might now be specified as implementing > X-DL where all the nice data language features > as are found in PDL and now many languages can > be accessed from other languages which would > allow me to work on scientific computations > and collaborate with colleagues independent of > our individual language preferences. > > Frankly, Julia as as Data Language minus Julia > the language and syntax is pretty much exactly > the features I had hoped for PDL Next Generation. > Maybe thinking of the goals for X-DL from this > point of view is a better way to see next > generation DL capabilities. > > I plan to look at Julia more. If there were a > cygwin Julia implementation (not a win32 > cross-compiled one) this would be even more > compelling for my work flow use case. > Glad to hear it. My own cursory look at Julia was very encouraging! The Julia developers do not support (or intend to support cygwin as a platform) but aside from that, maybe the thing to think about is what is missing from our PDL Next Generation and how could we get that in Julia. I'm thinking slicing syntax might be the main one. Don' have time for further discussion at the moment but I'll keep a list and write up some side-by-side thoughts later. --Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ pdl-general mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pdl-general
