I never said it was a crime. Just that after a while it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. reality be damned.
Tom C wrote: >> He was no more >> parroting the industry than a newspaper parrots it's sources when it >> encloses words in quotation marks. Repeating what one hears in an attempt >> to disseminate information. >> > > And yes, I realize before anyone points it out, that this is parroting. My > point was, that repeating public information is not a crime. > > Tom C. > > > >> From: "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Don't want to sound too alarmist but... >> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:44:57 -0600 >> >> Pentax WAS in the red with the camera division, you know that. It was >> underperforming, so stating so was a matter of fact. >> >> The one basic thing that Herb and some of us were trying to say, is that it >> really doesn't matter how Pentax percieves itself or how you, I, other >> Pentax brand owners perceives the company. First they're a public company. >> Second they have a small footprint in consumers' eyes, face competitors >> that >> are better healed, more competitive, and have 10X higher profit margins, >> and >> better brand recognition. Third, looking at what was happening to other >> small and long recognized camera brands, it wasn't rocket science to figure >> out that things weren't looking great. >> >> The raison d'etra for any company is making money. When a division ceases >> to be profitable, or is seen as a liability when compared to other more >> profitable divisions, prudent investors question the management, and >> prudent >> management look for ways to make changes. >> >> I don't understand your problem with Herb in particular. He was no more >> parroting the industry than a newspaper parrots it's sources when it >> encloses words in quotation marks. Repeating what one hears in an attempt >> to disseminate information, and interpreting it, is not a crime. Even if >> one >> presupposes what will happen and they're wrong, so what? Who isn't wrong >> at >> times? It seems like a case of shoot the messenger. >> >> Tom C. >> >> >> >>> From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Don't want to sound too alarmist but... >>> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 17:08:44 -0400 >>> >>> Pentax was never exactly in trouble financially, camera sales were not >>> world beating but they made a reasonable return on investment. Part of >>> that was due to what I see as Pentax's philosophy which is that Pentax >>> is a Camera and Lens manufacture, everything else Pentax did was to make >>> that possible. That's one of the problems with Herb's analysis. He >>> looked at Imaging as an under preforming division, not a "Raison >>> d'Etra". Based on the Pentax board's behavior I'd say I'm closer to >>> right about the internal view of Pentax had of itself than Herb ever was >>> about the external view. I've always been a realist about Pentax's >>> position. However I have a very hard time with Financial Analysts they >>> often parrot back the conventional wisdom within their own own >>> community, weather it's correct or not. The majority are wrong more >>> often than they are right on investments in my experience, but it seems >>> you can never go wrong in finance following a herd mentality. >>> >>> Tom C wrote: >>> >>>> No one predicted the details of what would happen Peter. How could >>>> >>> they? >>> >>>> Pentax's camera division turnaround was still a drop in the bucket, >>>> >> both >> >>>> volume-wise and profit-wise compared to their competiton in the >>>> >>> industry, >>> >>>> and that competition has the means to force the smaller companies to >>>> >>> their >>> >>>> knees in a price/profit war. >>>> >>>> It was simply suggested that Pentax appeared to be in trouble >>>> >>> financially, >>> >>>> and that the future was uncertain. They could exist as a small-time >>>> >>> player >>> >>>> for some period of time independently, they could go away, or the >>>> brand/mount could survive with the assistance of another company, >>>> Sony-Minolta fashion. >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom C. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> >>>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: Don't want to sound too alarmist but... >>>>> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:36:24 -0400 >>>>> >>>>> Pentax is being forced to sell out to Hoya by the Japanese equivalent >>>>> >>> of >>> >>>>> a Corporate Raider brought in as a White Knight, after they began to >>>>> turn their Camera Business around. That seems to be the exact >>>>> >> opposite >> >>>>> of what Herb was predicting. >>>>> >>>>> Tom C wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> On 21/05/07, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm just tired of all those who spend so much time watching the >>>>>>>> >> sky >> >>>>>>>> to see if it's falling. If I were inclined to dump my Pentax gear, >>>>>>>> >> I >> >>>>>>>> would do it now. But I'm not going to. It works quite well, thank >>>>>>>> you. A yawn is appropriate. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rob Studdert wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's not really, this is a conversation about Pentax on a Pentax >>>>>>> discussion list. Try to exercise just a little empathy, granted >>>>>>> Pentax's future is not entirely clear at the moment. However >>>>>>> >> consider >> >>>>>>> for just a moment that some others here may not be made of money >>>>>>> >> and >> >>>>>>> may have had to save and sacrifice to buy into the Pentax system >>>>>>> >> and >> >>>>>>> as such are simply concerned that it may not have a future. Surely >>>>>>> scenarios are worth discussion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Remember Rob. This is America, where one has the freedom to >>>>>> >> suppress >> >>>>>> other's freedom of speech if they don't like it. And the one who >>>>>> >>> shouts >>> >>>>>> longest and hardest wins. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is a Pentax list and Pentax is being discussed. Nobody has ever >>>>>> suggested dumping Pentax gear except the guys that are also saying >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> they're >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> not going to dump it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I wasn't ever going to say this, but I guess I will now. For all >>>>>> >>> those >>> >>>>> that >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> have been ridiculing the so-called Chicken Littles on the list who >>>>>> >> are >> >>>>>> supposedly claiming the sky is falling by discussing Pentax's >>>>>> >>> financial >>> >>>>>> condition in comparison with the industry... >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, guess what? The sky IS falling. Two or more years ago those >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> taunts >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> were voiced when Herb (who has in depth knowledge of the camera >>>>>> >>> industry >>> >>>>>> financials), Rob Studdert, and myself were discussing Pentax's >>>>>> >> future. >> >>>>> At >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> that time we suggested the outlook wasn't good and if things didn't >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> change, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Pentax was possibly headed the same way as companies like Contax, >>>>>> >>> Ricoh, >>> >>>>> or >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Minolta. We suggested that they good possibly either cease to exist >>>>>> >> or >> >>>>> that >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> they may be acquired or taken over. None of us knew what was going >>>>>> >> to >> >>>>>> happen and none of us outright predicted what would happen. There >>>>>> >> was >> >>> no >>> >>>>>> prescience. >>>>>> >>>>>> So a scenario quite similar to what we were talking about two years >>>>>> >>> ago >>> >>>>> is >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> now taking place, has been in progress for the last 6 months or so, >>>>>> >>> and >>> >>>>> is >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> in the front page Japanese financial news. And what's happening? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> There's >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> still folks on this list that are spouting the same "Chicken >>>>>> >> Little", >> >>>>> "Sky >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> is falling" rhetoric as they were two years ago (hoping to sqaush >>>>>> discussion) before Pentax penned a deal with Samsung, and before >>>>>> >>> rumors >>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> news of a Hoya/Pentax merger. >>>>>> >>>>>> I rest my case. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom C. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> All dogs have four legs; my cat has four legs. Therefore, my cat is a >>>>> >>> dog. >>> >>>>> -- >>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> All dogs have four legs; my cat has four legs. Therefore, my cat is a >>> >> dog. >> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> [email protected] >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> [email protected] >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> > > > > -- All dogs have four legs; my cat has four legs. Therefore, my cat is a dog. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
