Somehow I feel responsible for this. It was I that started an OT thread on Australians because I happen to be married to one and because on my short visit there I fell in love with the country and it's people (and we were discussing the Crocodile Hunter advertising for Pentax). How it degenerated into a political battle over gun control I have no idea but didn't participate in that crap.
Mike, you say you won't be missed but you will. Come back soon and we can argue about digital vs. film which seems so light-hearted right now! hahahaha Christian Skofteland [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Johnston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:23 PM Subject: I am outta here! Bye gang! > Bob's a pretty nice guy when he's talking about photography. But I choose > not to subject myself to this sort of crap. > > I'll see you all in about a month, at which time I'll hope there will be > many harmless and friendly OT threads, and none of them about instruments of > destruction. In Bob's honor, I'll make a $50 donation to Handgun Control > this Christmas. <s> > > In the meantime, MANY thanks for the MANY pleasurable moments recently, and > to all of you fine people (including you, Bob <g>), I wish you the very > best, happiest, and healthiest holidays! The PDML is the best list going, > because Pentax users are fine people. > > See you around January 15th or so, when I'll re-subscribe. You won't even > know I'm gone. > > All best, > > --Mike > > > > #1. The only real sources acceptable for proof or disproof are source data > > (by you or me). > > > > #2. Your biased sources are no better than my biased sources. > > > > #3. Political sources are most often more biased than lobby groups (either > > way). > > > > #4. a. The issue is not homicide using firearms, it's homicide. The victims > > don't care how they were killed. > > b. The issue is not violent crime using firearms, it's violent crime. > > The victims results are the same. > > c. The issue is not how many were killed at once. Whether they died > > alone or in company is irrelevant to the victims. > > > > #5. Perhaps Australians are a peaceable people who somehow are transferred > > into raving murders when in the presence of a firearm and return to their > > placid, peaceable existence when the firearm is removed. If this is the > > case, fine, but I see you as generally responsible even if you don't. > > > > #6. Whether it is incorrect or not I'll use the number of 11,000 firearm > > related murders in the US per year. (This is probably the 1998 figure as it > > is the one most commonly available. The figure for 1999 was estimated at > > ~9800 and the number for 2000 is estimated to be smaller.) > > > > This means that I have a 0.0000393 probability of being murdered by a > > firearm in any given year. If my life expectancy were 90 years, my probably > > of being murdered in a firearm related incident is 0.00353. There are 26 > > people in my extended family. If they all have a life expectancy were 90 > > years, then the probably of anyone in my (or anyone's) family being murdered > > in a firearm related incident is 0.0878. This is more than acceptable to me > > if the alternative is the loss of a liberty to 1/3 of our population. > > > > Those numbers are based purely on random number statistics. The truth is > > that the probability of being murdered by a firearm relates to your > > activities. More than 3/4 of murders here are those in gangs and drugs. I am > > not involved in gangs or drugs. The rough probabilities for 2750 of these > > murders by a firearm are then 0.0000098, 0.00088 and 0.023. None of my > > family is involved in any other questionable activities, and this reduces > > the probabilities even further. Neither I, nor anyone in my extended family > > has been the victim of a firearm related incident, nor has anyone I know. > > This is despite the fact that we _all_ own them and our families always > > have. > > > > Now if you tell me that by eliminating guns that you could reduce this rate > > to 0.003, well then, I am not impressed given what I and my fellow > > countrymen had to give up for it. > > > > Liberty is not about what you like not being curtailed or banned. Liberty is > > about choice and having it whether you exercise it or not. Liberty is not > > about the selfish notion of protecting what you enjoy and to hell with > > others and what they enjoy. Liberty is not free. All liberty comes at a > > cost. This cost is not just some price paid by some soldiers in any number > > of wars past. The cost of all liberty is paid as it is exercised. Is your > > speech free? Many are harmed for life and some die because this liberty is > > carelessly, and irresponsibility exercised. The same is true of the liberty > > of the press. Due process afforded criminals allows some to be set free due > > to carelessness of police or prosecutors and as a result more victims > > accumulate. Nevertheless, we count the cost of these liberties to be > > acceptable. Driving an auto is a privilege, not a right, nevertheless we > > count the cost of 50,000 lives a year as acceptable. Of course we want to > > reduce the cost, but in the mean time we accept the cost. > > > > If a liberty is to removed from any citizenry, I for one, expect it just and > > fair for those taking away the liberty to give an account of an actual, > > quantifiable benefit to be received. Further, if they do not deliver, I > > would want the liberty to be restored. Restoration is always unlikely, > > however. At no time in history has any liberty ever been restored to a > > people by any government. All governments accumulate laws thereby > > restricting the liberty of it's people. In time, politicians cease to serve > > the people and the people begin to serve the politicians. The process is not > > generally reversible. Liberty is only restored by an entirely different > > government. > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
