On May 29, 2016, at 12:52 PM, Igor PDML-StR <[email protected]> wrote:
Mark,
I do not know anything about Subaru's CVTs.
I've had somewhat extensive experience and learned about Nissan's CVTs
through the first-hand experience, numerous and very detailed conversations
with mechanics and reading/searching for information online. I don't how that
would apply to your case, - but I suspect the situation in the industry is very
similar for different mass-product manufacturers.
Despite being in existence (in non-luxury models) for over 10 years, CVT
remains being somewhat under-tested/under-designed in the sense of reliability
and how well it is adapted to various driving conditions.
Nissan has had CVTs in many (most?) models in the past 5-8 (-10?) years.
Nissan had huge number of problems with various models. E.g. Rogue, that
started in 2008, has had huge number of problems that Nissan was denying for
long time. Ultimately, around 2011-2012, because of those problems, they have
extended warranty on the CVT up to 125 Kmiles.
Throughout this period they had a bunch of "patches", "fixes" and other type of
kludges introduced:
1. reprogramming of the firmware for the CVT
2. change in the physical design (or manufacturing/parts, ... - I am not sure
exactly what was changed, as it is not disclosed)
3. addition of an additional cooling system -- if certain symptoms of
overheating are observed.
And with all of those, - they are still experiencing problems.
Ours started showing various symptoms within the 1st year, and I was bringing
it to the dealership it many times without any constructive diagnostics of the
probelm from that point until the CVT completely failed
in 2013 (I couldn't drive from a stop sign.). I don't remember how many miles
it had at that point, maybe 50-60K?
And the brand-new CVT is not completely symptom-free (although all those symptoms are
sort of subtle "anomalies", and none of them are any types of failures.)
I've been told that a line of Nissan trucks (Titans, IIRC) has huge number of
warranty repairs in the first 1-3 years.
A number of experienced and smart (non-dealer) mechanics refuse to deal with
CVTs. The reasons are: 1. it's a complicated system, and 2. from what I
understand (but I might be wrong), - Nissan does not release any information
about repairs/rebuilding of CVTs. I suspect even dealership mechanics do not do
any rebuilding of CVTs: they either replace CVTs, or they add those cooling
systems as prescribed by the corporate Nissan.
It doesn't mean that a smart guy cannot figure things out (you know, people
hacked more complicated electronic systems). But I would not expect an average
Joe's Corner Shop to deal with that correctly.
A few other thoughts:
I assume that you've already checked that Subaru didn't issue any extended
warranty for your model. Just in case, - I would google for your model and CVT,
- to check if it is a frequently experienced problem. If it is, even if it is
not an officially accepted problem, - you can try to push on your local
dealer's mechanic shop (good luck with that!), and they might
give you some discounts, as Paul has suggested. It's a slim chance, - but might
be worse trying. They might feel some guilt (har!) or have some non-obvous
incentive to be nice to you.
If you travel long-distance (as opposed to local, in-city commute), - being
sure that you wouldn't get stranded in the middle of nowhere could be strong
enough reason not to go for the lowest cost, even if you can install 3 of those
CVTs for the cost of one new.
And in case one of the warranties is significantly longer than 1 year, I would
seriously consider that, even though I very seldom pay for any extra warranties.
Good luck!
Igor
PS. I like the performance and the feel of the CVT on Rogue, but I would do a
very careful research about CVT reliability when I will be buying my next car.
And I am not keen on the idea of the shift-point emulation on top of the CVT.
That's what Nissan does in some of the current models.
I think that is a fad that defeats the advantages of a CVT.
On May 29, 2016 11:12 AM, "Mark C" wrote:
While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback made
some odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning light on
the control panel. I pulled over and wound up getting it towed to the
nearest dealership. On Friday they gave me the bad news - at just 78,000
miles the CVT transmission was shot. Needs a complete replacement.
The shop that has the car quoted me $11,000 to replace the CVT with a new
unit and just under $10,000 for a factory re-manufactured one. My local
shop quoted me $7,700 for a Subaru remanufactured CVT. It might be more
since I don't know if that includes the 6% sale tax on CVT itself. A local
independent shop gave me a rough estimate of $4,400 for a used
one,installed. All of the places figure about $1000 labor, everything else
is the cost of parts plus sales tax on the parts.
The only firm estimates I have are the ones from the first place. I got
the news from them at 3 PM Friday, before the holiday weekend. The local
places are quoting typical rates, they have not even seen the car yet to
give me a firm estimate. I don't know the warranty on the used
transmission at this point either, just that it has 25K on it.
I do have a call into Subaru customer service and they have agreed to do a
review of this under their goodwill program, so maybe there will be some
relief there, but the car is out of warranty and no extended coverage.
My concern with a used CVT, though, is that they seem to be pretty complex
and high tech devices. I have heard that they are actually built in clean
rooms. So I'm wondering if pulling one off a wreck would be a good idea.
Any reason NOT to do a used CVT? Thoughts would be appreciated. My first
task is getting the car towed back here next week.
Mark
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