Jason Thanks for boosting my faith in it further :-),
I do use Excel, Access and also in some cases sql to access our Sage software for links. Excel I find pretty natural to use, strange but true, it's a very nice tool, considering I cut my teeth on such number crunching beasts as CA Supercalc for DOS, but I can also see the results and understand what it does and can spot an error a mile off. The Access/sql links for Sage, well I do these as and when needed and it's a pain in the butt, its hard work as I guess I write this stuff for functionality rather than nice lean efficient code. But its number crunching and table/record edits. However I cannot relate those activities into a graphical design environment while handling graphical objects, the undo system does not help either if I fluff it up. In the 99SE environment you did not really have to second guess your syntax and usage that often, the underlying queries were hidden by check boxes and drop downs in DXP the underlying layer (QL) that I know was always present in 99SE has just been fully exposed. As Ian pointed out, the application of edits has also changed from being object based, then propagated to other objects, to create the edit then apply to object or selection. Do I want to type in A=B but !C if Layer = x or hit a few checkboxes, I would pick the check boxes every time and be happy to tackle the query system in the minority of the times its power is actually needed (and sometimes it is), same as in did in 99SE when using the 99SE Query manager. To apply the 99SE edit system to DXP I know myself is not practical to do, but a review of the UI would IMHO go a long way to helping everyone. Out of interest I wonder how many people actually jump back and forth between 99SE and DXP2004 on a regular basis and how many are DXP2004 only. John > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Morgan > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 4:32 PM > To: Protel EDA Discussion List > Subject: RE: [PEDA] 99se vs. DXP vs. 2004.. Need a sample > offeelingsaboutdiff.and reasons for moving or not to the next > > I would not describe the query language as programming, more > like entering a formula in Excel. > > When programming you have to worry about each lines affect on > all others, the query language is much simpler thatn a > 'proper' programming language. In the query language, you are > just describing what you want to show, all in one line. > > How is that any different to clicking the right boxes and > typing the a=b formulas for replacement in 'old protel' > > I think perhaps calling it a 'language' is what people are > worried about - perhaps altium should rename it. > > In any case, just like in excel, there is a wizard that > allows basic queryies to be build with no knowlege of > programming required - just english. > > j. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John A. Ross [RSDTV] > Sent: 19 November 2004 10:48 > To: 'Protel EDA Discussion List' > Subject: RE: [PEDA] 99se vs. DXP vs. 2004.. Need a sample > offeelingsaboutdiff. and reasons for moving or not to the next > > > > snip < > > > If your only hurdle to P2004 is the query language, then I > suggest you > > just get used to it. > > Jason > > Exactly the attitude Altium took. > > There are genuine people out here who cannot get there heads > round the query language enough to make it natural for them, > if it cannot become a natural trained response then it > becomes counter productive. > > For anyone who has not been used to working with code at any > time it will always be so. > > Trying to force the customer to change to fit the tools / > vendors is actually, to be frank, nuts. > Look at the time it has been around and it still scares > people who look at it. > > If this one KEY tool in using P2004 cannot become natural and > easy to use then it is a feature that fails the whole tool > chain and any other benefits which rely on it (pretty much > everything). > > I include myself in this group, every day I use DXP and have > to do something that was a natural, trained, instinctive > process in 99SE and have to make up a query for it I need to > think hard about this, construct it, test it, check it and if > need be debug it and do it again (very common iterative process). > > I do not have to write a macro in MS word to do a simple > thing like select text, and make only that text bold, I have > buttons to do it, a graphical process, much easier for the > eye/mind to recognise and process. No text to type, no > parenthesis to worry about, no syntax to worry about.... > > Getting the right query is sometimes the type of iterative > process I would expect in software development, or VHDL > development where the expected behaviour is to construct, > test, debug and back round again. > > This however should NOT put anyone off DXP, when it comes to > the query language and getting used to it and making it > natural to use, well, I must just be extremely stupid and > dumb compared to the other 99.9999% of DXP. > > It does have its benefits, in odd occasions and it is a > feature I would NOT like to see disappear from DXP and be > entirely replaced by 99SE method & 99SE query manager, but I > can account, in terms of real time, how much pain using the > query language directly, instead of a wrapper, costs me. > > This is only one mans opinion, mine, I guess, it is also not > a direct attack on your post, it . > > John > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to the PEDA discussion forum > > To Post messages: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Unsubscribe and Other Options: > http://techservinc.com/mailman/listinfo/peda_techservinc.com > > Browse or Search Old Archives (2001-2004): > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > Browse or Search Current Archives (2004-Current): > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to the PEDA discussion forum > > To Post messages: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Unsubscribe and Other Options: > http://techservinc.com/mailman/listinfo/peda_techservinc.com > > Browse or Search Old Archives (2001-2004): > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > Browse or Search Current Archives (2004-Current): > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > ____________________________________________________________ You are subscribed to the PEDA discussion forum To Post messages: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe and Other Options: http://techservinc.com/mailman/listinfo/peda_techservinc.com Browse or Search Old Archives (2001-2004): http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] Browse or Search Current Archives (2004-Current): http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
