Edwina, List: ET: I also note that, in my view, Peirce’s analysis of the simple, middling complexity and most complex nature of the three correlates [2.235-6-7] refers to their position in the *a priori* correlate order of determination. where the Representamen, the first correlate, is the simplest, because it determines all three.
On the contrary, in Peirce's speculative grammar, the designation of the sign/object/interpretant as the first/second/third correlates is not an order of *determination*, it is an order of *complexity*. The sign is the first (simplest) correlate because it has no degenerate correlate, the (dynamical) object is the second (middling) correlate because it has only one degenerate correlate (immediate), and the interpretant is the third (most complex) correlate because it has two degenerate correlates (dynamical and immediate). As I have said before, this is the result of phaneroscopic analysis of the genuine triadic relation of representing or (more generally) mediating in accordance with Peirce's universal categories, as very helpfully illustrated by Robert's podium diagram. It indeed has nothing to do with his taxonomies of sign classes that employ trichotomies of "categorical modes" (1ns/2ns/3ns) or universes (possible/existent/necessitant) for the correlates and their relations, other than establishing that there are exactly these six correlates. The sign as the first correlate *does not* determine the object as the second correlate, although it *does *determine the interpretant as the third correlate. Instead, the object as the second correlate determines the sign as the first correlate. In other words, semiosis always proceeds in accordance with Gary Richmond's vector of *determination *(2ns→1ns→3ns). As Peirce himself puts it ... CSP: I will say that a sign is anything, of whatsoever mode of being, which mediates between an object and an interpretant; since it is both determined by the object *relatively to the interpretant*, and determines the interpretant *in reference to the object*, in such wise as to cause the interpretant to be determined by the object through the mediation of this "sign." The object and the interpretant are thus merely the two correlates of the sign; the one being antecedent, the other consequent of the sign. (EP 2:410, 1907) Incorporating the degenerate correlates ... CSP: It is evident that a Possible can determine nothing but a Possible; it is equally so that a Necessitant can be determined by nothing but a Necessitant. Hence it follows from the Definition of a Sign that since the Dynamoid Object determines the Immediate Object, which determines the Sign itself, which determines the Destinate Interpretant, which determines the Effective Interpretant, which determines the Explicit Interpretant, the six trichotomies, instead of determining 729 classes of signs, as they would if they were independent, only yield 28 classes. (EP 2:481, 1908) Here, "determines" means "logically constrains" in accordance with the first sentence, which is why these six trichotomies yield 28 sign classes instead of 729; and again, there is longstanding disagreement about whether destinate=final and explicit=immediate (as I maintain), or destinate=immediate and explicit=final. Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 11:34 AM Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> wrote: > Further to my comments on the a priori determination and the a posteriori > determination - these seem to me to acknowledge the two different roles of > MIND and EXPERIENCE. > > The a priori determination process acknowledges that any entity - and I’d > include, as does Peirce, protoplasm’ - has a mind-determined or rational > interaction with the world. Or further..’an intelligence capable of > learning by experience’ 2.227. 1897. And as Peirce has always noted about > habits - they grow. An organism capable of learning [ even without a > separate brain] can thus adapt, can evolve in its cognitive > interactions with its environment [ Objects] and its functional use of them > {interpretants]. > > Therefore Mind or quasi-Mind- is the first correlate…and picks up data > from the Object[s] with which it THEN is in an a posteriori communicative > interaction. > > Again - this First Correlate - as the First - has NOTHING to do with > either there being only one correlate as the Repesentamen-Sign, or its > being in a categorical mode of Firstness. It is often in a categorical mode > of Secondness or Thirdness. It is a reference to the role of Mind, > as Robert has clearly shown, ..’the a priori world of mathematics and the > contingent world of experience [ quote from Nathan Houser 1989, p21]. The > world of mathematics is a property or action of Mind/quasi-Mind. > > Edwina > > On Jun 24, 2025, at 9:59 AM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Robert, list > > Thank you for your paper. I cannot comment on the use of AI - but am > focused, specifically, on your outline of 2.3. Two Determinations in the > mature sign. Now - this is, in my view, very important. TWO > determinations. > > 1] There is, as you outline, the *a priori* set of triadic relations, > where the First Correlate is the Representamen, the Second is the Object > and the Third is the Interpretant. 2.241.; 2.242. > > So- the Order is: Sign-Representamen/Object/Interpretant. This seems to > correlate with the categories, such that a correlate in Firstness can only > determine other correlates in the same mode… A correlate in Thirdness can > determine correlates in the same or ‘lesser’ modes. 2.235. This analysis > is abstract rather than referring to actual ‘ens’. > > 2] Then, in 1905, Peirce added another role for the sign/representamen, an *a > posteriori* analysis...as a ‘medium of communication’, and the order of > determination is > Object->Sign/Repesentamren-> Interpretant. > > And, as you point out, it is important as Peirce did, to distinguish > between the a posteriori and a priori forms of knowledge. > They do not contradict each other; they instead, refer to different > aspects of the semiosic process - but- they work together. > > 3] I also note that , in my view, Peirce’s analysis of the ’simple, > middling complexity and most complex nature of the three correlates [ > 2.235-6-7] refers to their position in the *a priori correlate *order of > determination. where > - the Represetnamen, the first correlate,is the simplest, because it > determines all three. > - And the third correlate, the Interpretant, is the most complex “being a > law if any one of the three is a law, and not being a mere possibility > unless all three are of that nature ] 2.236]. Note: I point out that, the > reference to any one of the three or all three *refers to the three** > correlates*, NOT three* Interpretants*] > > So far, in my reading, an excellent analysis- and I’m particularly > appreciative of the outline of the two determinations..ie..a priori and > a posteriori > > Edwina > >
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