List, Michael, Ben

Michael:

Your logical construct is sound from the perspective of Cantor's set theory and 
its numerous extensions, such as the category of sets. No disagreements with 
your conclusion if one assumes the propositions  of Cantor.  
(For an overview of Cantor's view, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor's_theorem#A_detailed_explanation_of_the_proof_when_X_is_countably_infinite
 )

I presume you are aware that CSP never accepted Cantorian set theory or 
Russelian logic.  Consequently, your line of explanation could hardly be the 
basis for his definition. Further, CSP's definition does not distinguish 
between "infinite sets" or "uncountably infinte sets", which is one of the most 
important conclusions from Cantorian set theory for mathematical analysis. 

My remark was restricted to the rhetoric of CSP's definition as given in Ben's 
post in comparison to CSP's other definition's of the continuum.  

My rhetoric was based on graph theory, not the diagrammatic logic of lattice 
theory. Lattice theory, which can be inferred from the power set of Cantorial 
counting, can also be represented as a special form graph theory.  CSP's 
definition does not invoke Cantor's propositions of sets, subsets of sets, and 
subsets of subsets of subsets and so forth as can be constructed within lattice 
theory.  See the wikipedia article for a simple example of inference by the 
diagrammatic logic of power sets, lattice theory and the growth of the graphs 
representing lattices.

Further more, my rhetoric does not depend on the science of chemistry, either. 
It does depend on concept of the potential for addition of graphic node to 
create multiple nodes, which is synomyous with the concept of electrical 
relations or of chemical valence.

For example, consider a connected graph with nodes of valence five.  If the 
graph is connected, then a connection must use one node  from each to form the 
connection.  To concatenate the graph into a chain, another pair of nodes must 
be used.  Thus, for every object with valence five, at least two nodes are 
necessary to concatenate the links of the chain.  What are the possibilities 
for the other nodes?  Each of three nodes may initiate a new branch in the 
graph.  Thus, 3^n new branches can be created where n is the count of the 
number of branches.  Although the algebra is clear, the diagrams rapidly become 
to perplex to draw. 

Now, if the power set is defined as 2^n counts of the possible subsets, then 
3^n grows faster than 2^n.

The difference that makes a difference (a la Bateson) is that my rhetoric is 
based on the conceptualization of what is being counted.

Cantorian set theory counts members of a set.

My logic counts relations among relatives.  (A rough sketch of this form of 
counting was published in Discrete Applied Mathematics in 2009.)

Physically, Cantorian set theory can be viewed as each point/object 
representing a point mass.
Physically, my way of counting can be viewed as each object as a graph composed 
from unbounded numbers of electrical valences at each node.

In other words, two clearly separate and distinctive methods exist for counting 
physical particles. 

In my post, I pointed to the weakness of the concept of exhaustion with respect 
to the definition of the continuum. You apparently agree, basing your 
assertions on Cantorian set theory.

Here, I am simply pointing out that the methods of counting of graphic 
relations among relatives, (homologous with some aspects of chemical logic, 
biochemical logic and cellular logic) increase faster than the power set.  
Although I use the example of a valence of five, it should be apparent to all 
readers that higher valences (6,7,8,… (infinity - 1)) will grow relations among 
graphs even faster, faster by any desired multitude (of the power set) less 
than infinity. 

Michael, I agree that CSP's notion of the continuum effectively separates the 
concept of the continuum  from the concept of counting.  The difference that 
makes a difference in his CSP philosophy is the meaning of the term "count" in 
relation to the term "continuum".  Most of the pragmatic scientific community 
ignore the subtle distinction as it has little practical significance in terms 
of measurements, which seldom exceed 10 decimal points.

BTW, do you consider the Cantorian propositions to be natural or unnatural?
Also,  do you consider the arithmetic propositions to be natural or unnatural?

Thanks for the provocative reply.

Cheers

Jerry 


On Nov 10, 2014, at 11:26 AM, Michael DeLaurentis wrote:

> Jerry – That you can endlessly, and apparently recursively, add any number of 
> elements means only that you have a potentially countably infinite 
> collection.  Cantor’s power-set operation allows increasing magnitude beyond 
> the limit of countability.  CSP is effectively saying no operation can move 
> beyond the cardinality of any rank, no matter how constructed, that arrives 
> at his conception of a true continuum.  Certainly, the m-value branching of 
> any number N of elements doesn’t get you there.
>  
> From: Jerry LR Chandler [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 11:59 AM
> To: Benjamin Udell
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Continuity, Generality, Infinity, Law, Synechism, 
> etc.
>  
> Ben, list:
>  
> On Nov 10, 2014, at 9:33 AM, Benjamin Udell wrote, quoting CSP:
> 
> 
> A true CONTINUUM (q. v.) is something whose possibilities of determination no 
> multitude of individuals can exhaust. 
>  
>  
> A minor comment with respect to this definition of a continuum.
>  
> The concept of "can exhaust" is a weak concept of continuity relative to the 
> notion of a mark on a line or the welding of points together.
>  
> A simple counterexample of this definition arises in chemical logic.
>  
> The conjunction of chemical elements creates molecules containing all the 
> parts of each element.
>  
> Such conjunctions beget spatial objects.
>  
> An element may serve as a branching point for the graph of the molecule, it 
> may signify 1,2,3,4,... branches into 3D space.
>  
> The additions of further conjuncts is not exhaustible; no multitude of 
> individual atoms exhausts the individuals.
>  
> Yet, the branched structure, as a consequence of valence, is a set of nodes 
> and lines representing the parts of the atoms. It is not necessarily a circle 
> but circles are not excluded. 
>  
> Does this concept of conjunction conform to CSP's definition of a continuum 
> based on the concept of exhausting individuals?
> 
>  
> Cheers
>  
> Jerry
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8475 - Release Date: 10/29/14
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> 
> 
> -----------------------------
> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON 
> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] 
> . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] 
> with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at 
> http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .

-----------------------------
PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L 
to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . To 
UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the 
line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at 
http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .




Reply via email to