Steven,

I remember that, years ago here at peirce-l, you didn't define deduction in terms of entailment or truth preservation. You defined deduction and induction in terms of taking things part and of putting things together, or vice versa. Do you still reject entailment and truth preservation as ways to define deduction? Maybe that's why, as you said, you can't make sense of the things that I said.

The deductive-ampliative distinction is simply the deductive-nondeductive distinction. Mathematically formalize it any way you like. Let's just suppose that mathematically formal definitions of deduction have been supplied in the past. Any standard such definition would be good enough for me. Now, the repletive-attenuative distinction is quite analagous to the deductive-ampliative distinction. Take it from there.

I didn't know of a "quantifiable account of measures" - presumably you mean "account of quantifiable measures" - of deduction and other such inference forms. At least I missed that in Peirce and Quine, unless you're talking about something familiar under a vague label. But if there are such accounts of deductive and non-deductive inference, any standard ones would be fine with me. Take your pick and make the requisite transformations to apply it to the repletive-attenuative measures.

Best, Ben

On 4/7/2015 4:31 PM, Steven Ericsson-Zenith wrote:
You need to mathematically formalize the definitions Ben and give quantifiable accounts of measures in terms. To be honest, this makes little sense to me.

Steven

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Benjamin Udell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    Jerry, list,

    I felt somewhat hampered in the discussion below by a lack of
    terminology. We have the words 'deductive' and 'ampliative' for
    inferences where the conclusions don't or do, respectively, add
    something beyond the premisses. But I can't find a generic word
    for an inference where the conclusion says _/at least as much as/_
    the premisses say, nor a generic word for an inference where the
    conclusion _/omits/_ something that the premisses say.

    So I've come up with a couple of words - _/repletive/_ and
    _/attenuative/_ - that will come in handy if such discussion
    arises again, though such discussion doesn't arise often.

    ('Entail' = 'deductively imply'.)

    *Inferences:
    /Deductive/ = Everything* (explicit or entailed) *in the
    conclusion is* (explicit or entailed) *in the premisses.*
    */Ampliative/ = Something* (explicit or entailed) *in the
    conclusion is not* (explicit or entailed) *in the premisses.*
    */Repletive/ = Everything* (explicit or entailed) *in the
    premisses is* (explicit or entailed) *in the conclusion.*
    */Attenuative/ = Something* (explicit or entailed) *in the
    premisses is not* (explicit or entailed) *in the conclusion. *

    Inferences
        */Deductive:/*  */Ampliative:/*
    */Repletive:/*      *'Reversible' deduction. *      *Some induction. *
    */Attenuative:/*    *'Forward-only' deduction. *    *Abduction, much
    induction*. *

    *E.g., "3/5 of the sample is blue, so (likely) 3/5 of the total is
    blue" is usually considered inductive. Still, it's not only
    ampliative, it's also attenuative.

    Summary of properties from perspectives of proof theory and model
    theory
    (not that I know much about them) . Inferences ⇓
    */Proof-theoretic perspective:/*    */Model-theoretic perspective:
    /*
    */Deductive:/*      Premisses *entail* conclusions.         Automatically
    *preserves truth*.
    /*Ampliative*
    (i.e., non-deductive)*:*/   Premisses *do not entail*
    conclusions.        *Does not* automatically *preserve truth*.
    */Repletive:/*      Premisses *are entailed by* conclusions.
    Automatically *preserves falsity*.
    /*Attenuative*
    (i.e., non-repletive)*:*/   Premisses *are not entailed by*
    conclusions.        *Does not* automatically *preserve falsity*.


    Best, Ben

    *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] Bayes and abduction - from the
    perspective of organic mathematics / the unity of the sciences
    *Date:* Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:00:32 -0400
    *From:* Benjamin Udell
    *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

    Jerry, all,

    Jerry, I can't address the things you say about chemistry, I
    don't have the background. But I can say some things about
    Peirce's examples of abductive and inductive inferences.

    Jerry, you wrote,

        CSP's usage of the term ampliative infers that:
        >  the ampliative conclusion deductively implies the premisses.

    In most of Peirce's examples (e.g., 1867, 1878, 1883) that I've
    seen, neither the inductive conclusion usually nor the abductive
    conclusion ever deductively implies its premisses. So it seems
    unlikely that he thought the term "ampliative", as applied to
    inference, meant that the conclusion deductively implies the
    premisses. Anyway he says that non-deductive inferences are
    ampliative and that this means that "they conclude something not
    implied in the premisses" in "The Doctrine of Necessity Examined"
    (1892, see CP 6.40
    http://www.iupui.edu/~arisbe/menu/library/bycsp/necessity/necessity.htm
    <http://www.iupui.edu/%7Earisbe/menu/library/bycsp/necessity/necessity.htm>
    ). Obviously, just in order to be non-deductive, a non-deductive
    inference does not have to have a conclusion that deductively
    implies its premisses. It just needs to have a conclusion that
    its premisses don't deductively imply.

    The inductive conclusion that all the beans from the bag are
    white does not deductively imply the premisses that these beans
    here are from the bag and that they are white.

    A rare exception is the crude induction of the kind (not Peirce's
    actual example), 'all swans in England are white, ergo all swans
    in the world are white' (except insofar as the conclusion fails
    to imply that there is an England; but one might get around that
    somehow). But if one says, 3/5 among all swans in England are
    white, ergo 3/5 among all swans in the world are white, then the
    conclusion does not deductively imply the premiss, yet the
    inference would usually be regarded as inductive (and hardly less
    crude than the first one). Can we get the deductiveness by adding
    qualifiers? If the conclusion is that it is _/likely/ _ that 3/5
    among all swans in the world are white, that deductively implies
    at most that it is _/likely, but somewhat less likely,/ _ that
    3/5 among all swans in England are white. And that was not the
    inductive premiss.

    A finding (predating the fame of black swans as in the above
    examples) might be stated carefully, "All swans in Europe are
    white, ergo all swans in Europe and very likely all swans
    elsewhere, are white." There the conclusion deductively implies
    the premiss, by repeating it somewhat crudely. Still (and I don't
    know what Peirce would think of this), maybe that's more in the
    spirit of an inductive conclusion, painting a fuller picture of a
    total population, showing observations and predictively extended
    trend line together; the extended trend line all by itself might
    be taken as a weakly abductive (non-explanatory and involving no
    new or outside idea) statistical hypothesis of some sort, the
    interest in it remaining grounded in interest in the particular
    population under observation; so maybe the "really" inductive
    conclusion is observations plus extended trend line. On the other
    hand, the inquirial interest of an abductively conceived theory
    like general relativity goes beyond the inquirial interest of the
    Sun and any actual stars around which gravitation's bending of
    light is observed; the theory's conclusions are stated in general
    forms without mention of the Sun etc. But I admit that I'm trying
    to get at things here that I'm not quite clear on.

    As to abducing particulars, one sees the lawn wet one morning,
    considers that, as a matter of course, if it rains at night, the
    lawn is wet the next morning, and concludes that very plausibly
    it rained last night - which conclusion does not deductively
    imply its premisses. To check the conclusion, one might check
    neighboring lawns. The interest has become whether it rained last
    night, not the total set of nights and mornings at the lawn, nor
    just the condition of one's own lawn. A rainfall last night might
    explain many things. So it doesn't make sense to recast the
    conclusion in some premisses-implying form like "it rained last
    night and my lawn is wet, and that happens as a matter of course,
    with night rain never failing to leave my lawn wet."

    Best, Ben

    On 4/6/2015 12:39 AM, Jerry LR Chandler wrote:

    List, Ben, Clark, Danko:

    On Apr 3, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Benjamin Udell wrote:

    Peirce also characterizes non-deductive inference as
    _/ampliative/ _, that is, having conclusions not deductively
    implied by the premisses, and I still like the idea, that I had
    before reading Peirce, of distinguishing induction from more
    'leapy' or conjectural inference, by whether the ampliative
    conclusion deductively implies the premisses or not (I've
    tended in the past to speak of 'surmise' when I've had in mind
    conjectural inference so defined, because I've doubted that
    people would agree to define abduction as inference that lacks
    deductive implication whether by premisses of conclusions or
    vice versa). Now, it's easy enough to come up with an
    ampliative conclusion; such a conclusion doesn't need abductive
    plausibility or Peirce's inductive verisimilitude (the likeness
    of the conclusion to the premissual samples) in order to be
    ampliative; but, without them, it just isn't intrinsically
    fruitful or promising in inquiry. Likewise a deductive
    conclusion can simply repeat a premiss word for word and still
    be deductive, but such a deduction, lacking any new or
    nontrivial aspect, just isn't intrinsically fruitful or
    promising in inquiry.

    First, thanks to you, Ben, I have studied the potential meaning
    of the logical term, ampliative, for nigh unto a decade now,
    perhaps longer.

    At this point in time, one firm conclusion about CSP's usage of
    this term is clear, at least in my mind, with respect to the
    life sciences.

    Within the framework of the explicit sortal logic of chemistry,
    molecular biology, and the pan-chemical sciences, CSP's usage of
    the term ampliative infers that:

     the ampliative conclusion deductively implies the premisses.

    Within the Peircian mathematical / philosophical context, this
     conclusion is a central component of the trichotomy components,
    sin-sign, index, icon, Rheme and Dicisign *with respect to* the
    legisign as well as organic mathematics

    As I have asserted before, the trichotomy is an example of
    chemical reasoning that is extensible. Within the sortal logic
    of organic mathematics, the legisign (natural law in the sense
    of Kant?) includes the concepts of atomic masses and valence.

      In this case, I simply assert that sin-sign of a molecule, as
    representations of the forms of atomic weights, is a basis of
    CSP's central term  "index."  This basic logical chemical
    operation of addition of atomic weights is physically measured
    as a quali-sign of a  molecular sin-sign. /Both the qualisign
    and index are quantitative predicates of logical propositions of
    a molecular sin-sign. /

    In the modern chemical icon (structure), these physically
    measured quantities, take on the form of a diagram, a graph,
    and, yet, more specifically, a labelled bipartite graph, a
    connected lattice of electrical relations that serves as the
    initial conditions for quantum mechanical calculations.  In this
    context, these terms all describe mathematical terms relatable
    to the the index.

    /Thus, I conclude that the Peircian term, ampliative,  adroitly
    coheres with the logical unity of the natural sciences because
    of the physical logical connection between the sin-sign and it's
    index./

    [.....]

    Cheers

    Jerry

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