Greetings ~ 1. Everyone uses signs, including us, the dog catcher and pre-verbal infants. 2. Peirce discussed the use of signs in everyday settings to illustrate semiotic principles. 3. Therefore anyone's use of signs could potentially be used by Peirce to illustrate semiotic principles.
[#3 is more restrictive than "Peirce-related in one way or another." It does not imply that infants, dog catchers or others engage in semiotic analysis.] Regards, Tom Wyrick (new member) On Jul 3, 2015, at 2:16 PM, Sungchul Ji <[email protected]> wrote: Edwina, I appreciate your careful analysis of my syllogism, but I disagree with your conclusion that my syllogism is " . . . a circular argument and thus fallacious, as a syllogism, it is invalid (070315-1) because of the logical error of the undistributed middle" The reason for my disagreeing with your conclusion is given below. You wrote: "The syllogistic fallacy that you make is: (070315-2) [ALL] X is y. [ALL] Z is y. Therefore [All] Z is X. The above is your format. It is invalid...because the 'middle term' of 'y' that connects the two (X and Z) is not distributed. . . . . " Syllogism (070315-2) is a misrepresentation of my original syllogism, (070315-3), which is stated more clearly as (070315-4): 1. We think, write, and speak in signs (070315-3) 2. Peirce's research was devoted to signs 3. Any topics about which we think, write, and speak are therefore are Peirce-related 1. We think/write/speak in signs (070315-4) 2. Signs are Peirce-related because he studied all kinds of signs 3. Therefore all our thoughts/writings/speeches are Peirce-related (in one way or another) You may not agree that (070315-3) and (070315-4) are equivalent (if you don't, I would like to know the reason why you think so), but that was the key point of my syllogism. My syllogism, (070315-4), is of the following format, which differs from your (070315-2): [ALL] X is y. (070315-5) [ALL] Y is z. Therefore [All] X is z. where X = our thoughts/writings/speeches y = signs z = the object of the scientific investigation by Peirce, and hence "Peirce-related" As you can see, (070315-5), does not involve any logical error, since the middle term is distributed in both premises. All the best. Sung > On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 10:07 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> wrote: > Sung, apart from being a circular argument and thus fallacious, as a > syllogism, it is invalid because of the logical error of the undistributed > middle. Look it up; I know that you don't understand syllogistic logic. > > The syllogistic fallacy that you make is: > [ALL] X is y. > [ALL] Z is y. > Therefore [All] Z is X. > > The above is your format. It is invalid...because the 'middle term' of 'y' > that connects the two (X and Z) is not distributed. Again - I'm not going to > explain syllogistic logic to you. > > An example would be: > ALL rabbits have fur. > ALL (or my) dog has fur. > Therefore my dog is a rabbit. > > That's the error you made. > > Edwina > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sungchul Ji > To: PEIRCE-L > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 9:53 PM > Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] More on applying theory - culture, projection > > Edwina wrote: > > "Sung, I suggest that your assertions that because we 'think, write and speak > in signs' and that Peircean research was 'devoted to signs'...that your > subsequent conclusion that 'any topics that we 'think, write and speak' are > therefore valid on a Peircean list is a logical fallacy of circular > reasoning. You've reduced the meaning of 'sign' to emptiness." > > I disagree with your conclusions above, since (i) I do not see any logical > fallacy in what I said in my previous post which is summarized below nor (ii) > did I say anything about the meaning of "sign". > > 1. We think, write, and speak in signs. > 2. Peirce's research was devoted to signs. > 3. Any topics about which we think, write, and speak are therefore are > Peirce-related. > > Perhaps my understanding of your criticisms is incomplete. If you think so, > I would appreciate your clarifications. > > All the best. > > Sung > > > >> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> wrote: >> I'd agree with Ben; I don't think the list can be reduced to 'any and all >> topics'. It's a Peircean list. >> >> Sung, I suggest that your assertions that because we 'think, write and speak >> in signs' and that Peircean research was 'devoted to signs'...that your >> subsequent conclusion that 'any topics that we 'think, write and speak' are >> therefore valid on a Peircean list is a logical fallacy of circular >> reasoning. You've reduced the meaning of 'sign' to emptiness. >> >> As for Stephen and his matriarchal/patriarchal claims, my view is that they >> are analytically incorrect; I consider that he has ignored the economic mode >> and societal infrastructure as primarily causal of both these modes of >> organization (matriarchy/patriarchy) - but, since these factors are neither >> Peircean nor even semiosic, then, I have no intention of getting into a >> debate on this list. >> >> But I do acknowledge Stephen Rose's post - for often, even when a post >> states that it is Peircean related - this relation may be as invalid as >> Sung's illogical claim above - or, as well, a few posters seem >> isolate-in-themselves, speaking only for and about their own focus. This can >> result in a monologue or a dialogue engaged in only by one other person. >> That's what the 'delete' button is for. >> >> Edwina >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Benjamin Udell >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 6:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] More on applying theory - culture, projection >> >> Sung, all, >> >> Your post implies that we should emulate Peirce to a T but we can't emulate >> Peirce to a T because we aren't Peirce. PEIRCE-L is for Peirce-related >> discussion. Peirce himself was not focused on 'Peirce-related' discussion. >> Instead those who carry on prolonged, multi-post discussions of a given >> topic should clarify and thematize the topic's relation to Peirce because >> that is what is promised to subscribers and that is what most subscribers >> expect. >> >> That has been and will continue to be the policy of peirce-l. >> >> Best, Ben Udell as co-manager, peirce-l. >> >>> On 7/2/2015 5:42 PM, Sungchul Ji wrote: >>> Bev, Gary, lists, >>> >>> I agree with Bev, because Peirce's whole career was devoted to the study of >>> signs and "Peirce-related" is thus "sign-related", it seems to me. >>> Besides, as I learned it from Peirce, we THINK, WRITE, and SPEAK in SIGNS, >>> and hence whatever we post on these lists should be regarded as >>> Peirce-related in one way or another, including linguistic texts, chemical >>> equations, mathematical formulas, network diagrams, pictures, and whatever >>> else that may emerge in the future as NEW means of communication and >>> representation through the Internet. >>> >>> In other words, for me, semiotics is not yet closed. Its future should not >>> be confined to studying MACRO-SEMIOTICS as constructed by Poinsot, Peirce, >>> and others but should be open to studying both MICRO-SEMIOTICS as currently >>> being developed in biosemiotics (.e.g., DNA as a molecular sign) and what >>> may be called 'COSMO-SEMIOTICS' as may be developed in the future (e.g., >>> viewing spiral galaxies as cosmological signs). Imagine what fantastic >>> syntheses in philosophy Pierce's genius might be accomplishing now were he >>> alive today ! >>> >>> All the best. >>> >>> Sung >>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Bev Corwin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> I enjoy all of the discussions and would prefer more broad than >>>> restrictive frameworks. I consider restricting discussions as more >>>> technocratic tactic / approach and not Perice related in style. >>>> >>>> Bev >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----------------------------- >>>> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >>>> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >>>> [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L >>>> but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the >>>> BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm >>>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sungchul Ji, Ph.D. >>> >>> Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology >>> Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology >>> Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy >>> Rutgers University >>> Piscataway, N.J. 08855 >>> 732-445-4701 >>> >>> www.conformon.net >> >> >> ----------------------------- >> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but >> to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of >> the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------- >> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but >> to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of >> the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . > > > > -- > Sungchul Ji, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology > Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology > Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy > Rutgers University > Piscataway, N.J. 08855 > 732-445-4701 > > www.conformon.net > > ----------------------------- > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] > . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] > with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at > http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . -- Sungchul Ji, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy Rutgers University Piscataway, N.J. 08855 732-445-4701 www.conformon.net ----------------------------- PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
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