Tom, List,

Everything I know about Hegel's master/slave dialectic I learned
from an animated short I saw at an experimental film fest in the
early 70s -- but in my news-feed just this morning I see notice
of a paper by Kent Palmer referring to that Very Zeitly Geist,
so I'll be reading that with interest as soon as I get time.

Kent Palmer "Hegel's Groupoids"

Meanwhile, back on the range (I actually see a pot-bellied stove here),
I tend to see Peirce's story in a cybernetic or systems-theoretic frame.
The aspect of error calls to mind the problem of maintaining one's course
through a disturbing environment by observing deviations from that course
and using information about the amplitudes and directions of those errors
to get back on track.

This is of course a very rich example
and I'll say more about as I get time.



On 2/22/2018 11:28 AM, Thomas Gollier wrote:

The self born in "error and ignorance" gives Peirce's psychological view of
the origin of *self-consciousness*, and tying this to his remarks regarding
the hot stove seems to offer some possibilities.  What's interesting to me,
though, is the comparison of Peirce's view to Hegel's derivation of
*self-consciousness* via the master/slave dialectic in the *Phenomenology
of Spirit*.  Hegel is more mythologically dramatic, but I don't think
they're that far apart.


On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:40 AM, Jon Awbrey <> wrote:


Facebook has an app that reminds me of things I posted on
the same day in years past, and this one came up for today:



A child hears it said that the stove is hot. But it is not, he says; and,
indeed, that central body is not touching it, and only what that touches is
hot or cold. But he touches it, and finds the testimony confirmed in a
striking way. Thus, he becomes aware of ignorance, and it is necessary to
suppose a self in which this ignorance can inhere. ...

In short, error appears, and it can be explained only by supposing a self
which is fallible.

Ignorance and error are all that distinguish our private selves from the
absolute ego of pure apperception.

Charles S. Peirce : "Questions Concerning Certain Faculties Claimed For Man"


I don't know if this is the same "stove incident" as the one being
discussed earlier on the List, as I was away for the start of that,
but it strikes me that this story has a rather different moral than
simply reviving a Morrisean transmogrification of Peircean semiotics.
Namely, it has to do with the path to discovering a particular object,
to wit, the self.




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