List, Edwina:

> On Jul 15, 2019, at 6:36 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Jerry 
> 
> 1] - all sciences are ‘based on perceptions’ [and the analysis of these 
> perceptions]. I don’t know what YOU mean by ‘signs of matter’.

I agree with your assertion.
Historically, as a consequence of inquiry into natural philosophy, the chemical 
sciences emerged, over several millennia,  from the signs of matter.  CSP was 
among the many who sought to spin a philosophy from the signs of matter.

> 
> 2] I don’t share your dismissal of many researchers in other fields as unable 
> to understand ‘the logic of chemistry’.

I agree with your assertion.
> 
> 3] What’s the difference between a ‘general variable’ and a ‘species’? And I 
> don’t agree with you that a ‘species is specified by its qualisigns’! And I 
> think you are missing my point about the morphological formative process of 
> semiosis - using the basic triad. 

I agree with your assertion.
> 
> 4] As for your personal insult - I’ll leave you to enjoy having made it. I 
> don’t deal with personal insults.

I merely agreed with your assertion.

Cheers
Jerry



> 
> Edwina
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jul 15, 2019, at 7:20 PM, Jerry LR Chandler <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
>> Edwina:
>> 
>> First, to be clear about the issues involved.
>> 
>> 1.  The chemical science are based on the perceptions.  Roughly speaking, 
>> only signs of matter are available for analysis at the level of chemical 
>> identity.  One can assert that the roots of chemistry, as known during CSP’s 
>> lifespan, were entirely semiotic.  Thus, after medical practice, the 
>> chemical sciences were the second source for the developments of the logics 
>> of semiosis.  Today, of course, the collations of numerous sub disciplines 
>> rely heavily on abstract logical interpretations of signs.
>> 
>> 2. The logic of modern chemistry and molecular biology is vastly more 
>> complex than CSP realized. Indeed, the logic of chemistry is beyond the 
>> grasp of virtually all logicians, mathematicians and physicians, but often 
>> understood in principle by biologists. The primitive graph theory of CSP is 
>> only remotely related to the electrical terminology needed to represent the 
>> relations between nuclei and electrons in forming molecules with EMERGENT 
>> properties, ie, complex relations beyond the inverse square laws.
>> 
>> 
>> Does this offer you some insight about your assertion: "And I don’t see why 
>> Peirce’s semiotic framework can’t apply to ‘chemical entities’. After all - 
>> the semiotic process DOES apply to ‘matter’, and to my knowledge, ‘matter’ 
>> is a ‘chemical entity’.”
>> 
>> A chemical entity is a single sort of thing with an identity (derived from 
>> an analytical index of atoms and, in CSP terms, rhema and dicisigns.
>> It is no a general variable, rather a species specified BY IT’S QUALISIGNS.. 
>> 
>> With regard to:
>> 
>>> Second - I’ve no idea what ‘ontological status within natural philosophy’ 
>>> means.
>> 
>> 
>> In my opinion, your posts over the roughly two decades of our exchanges, 
>> fully confirm this  assertion.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Jerry 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 15, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jerry -I’m not talking about ‘chemical representations’ or ‘symbols’ of 
>>> chemical molecules. And I don’t see why Peirce’s semiotic framework can’t 
>>> apply to ‘chemical entities’. After all - the semiotic process DOES apply 
>>> to ‘matter’, and to my knowledge, ‘matter’ is a ‘chemical entity’.
>>> 
>>> Second - I’ve no idea what ‘ontological status within natural philosophy’ 
>>> means.
>>> 
>>> Edwina
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On Jul 15, 2019, at 2:29 PM, Jerry LR Chandler 
>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> List:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 15, 2019, at 12:52 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected] 
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This analytic framework, I suggest, can be used to describe and analyze 
>>>>>>> all  complex adaptive systems. For one example - take speciation of the 
>>>>>>> progressive movement to diversity and complexity -- for example, plant 
>>>>>>> speciation where plants evolve barriers to genetic exchange  between 
>>>>>>> previously interbreeding populations. That is, informational stimuli 
>>>>>>> from such external agents as changes in an external pollinator and/or 
>>>>>>> habitat [[a semiosic interaction] promotes adaptive divergence in local 
>>>>>>> areas. That is, 'small networks' or local semiosic networks' can 
>>>>>>> promote rapid adaptive and evolutionary changes that are confined to a 
>>>>>>> local area.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately, CSP’s analytical framework, while he viewed it from a 
>>>> chemical bedrock perspective, does not represent chemical entities.
>>>> 
>>>> The necessities for chemical representations include symbols for the 
>>>> identity of each atomic number and the associated electrical graphs 
>>>> representing part-whole bindings to create the unity of chemical sentence. 
>>>>  In addition, one of the bedrocks of modern chemical logic is the 
>>>> requirement that a sentence describing the facts of the synthesis of 
>>>> molecules from atoms associate copulative conjunctions with emergent 
>>>> predicates. 
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, the claim that CSP’s framework represents "complex adaptive 
>>>> systems" is unchallenged because this claim is merely philosophical 
>>>> musings, lacking any ontological status within natural philosophy.
>>>> 
>>>> JMHO.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Jerry
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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