Edwina, ok, thoug I would say, the strengthening of the beak might also be seen as a kind of induction, because both the seed shell, and the beak have been there before, so there is no complete novelty nor total surprise. Maybe mutations are part of abduction? Though abduction might be seen as a guess with a reason, a hypothesis based on a real perceived similarity, while a mutation is rather a wild guess without a hypothesis? If in a forest there surprisingly occur carnivores that live on the ground, and a squirrel has due to a mutation a skin between its arms and legs, so it can glide from one tree to the other without going to the ground, it has an advantage. But the mutation is random. But maybe on a slow evolutuionary scale this might be interpreted as hypothesis? Or would such an interpretation be anthropo- or neurocentrism?
Best, Helmut
 
14. Dezember 2020 um 21:12 Uhr
"Edwina Taborsky" <tabor...@primus.ca>
wrote:

Helmut - the point of abduction is the appearance of a novel situation - and the adjustment by an organism to that novelty by its development of a new hypothesis or law.

The organism - and I maintain this can be a plant, a cell, an insect, a human...interacting with the environment, receives input data that is novel to its system.[surprising fact is observed].  So- it adapts; it develops a new set of habits[ new hypothesis]  such that it can continue to live in that environment with that novel situation.

So- a bird adapts to new seeds that have developed harder shells by itself developing a harder beak.

I don't see that abduction means an 'awareness of resemblance'.

Edwina

 



 

On Mon 14/12/20 2:46 PM , Helmut Raulien h.raul...@gmx.de sent:

 
 
 
Supplement: Abduction means, that something is recognized (truly or falsely doesnt matter) as seeming like something other. That is depiction or awareness of resemblance. Please give me one example, in which this occurs besides the action of a neuronic network.
Edwina,
I seem to not come through. I dont know, chance is something quite trivial for me, and abduction something more complex. To mentally abduct something means to copy it. Chance is just incertainty. Incertainty occurs in the physicochemical realm, but the ability of copying something reqires neurons. I dont know what is wrong with that. Sorry, best, Helmut
 
 
14. Dezember 2020 um 20:08 Uhr
 "Edwina Taborsky"
wrote:

Helmut - we'll just have to disagree!

I consider that chance is a basic attribute of abduction, where an aberration from the norm appears, and the Mind [and I consider that all matter including the inorganic,  functions within Mind] - can develop a new habit that incorporates this aberration as 'normal'. This has nothing to do with uncertainty. And nothing to do with 'need' [whatever that means].

I don't see induction as requiring final causality. I see induction merely as pure observation of 'what is existent'. Nothing to do with any 'need'.

Edwina

 

On Mon 14/12/20 1:55 PM , Helmut Raulien h.raul...@gmx.de sent:

Edwina,
I agree, that in inanimate world there is chance, due to the Heisenberg incertainty and to incertainty as calculated by chaos theory. But I doubt, that this has to do with induction or abduction, or with final or example causation. I think, that final causation (or induction) requires a need, which is something only organisms have. No stone or molecule needs anything. Abduction, example cause, requires a structure that can recognize or copy a pattern. This is only doable with a network of neurons, or maybe with a single neuron, or two of them, I dont know, but anyway with neurons, is what I think.
 
Best, Helmut
 
 
14. Dezember 2020 um 19:39 Uhr
"Edwina Taborsky"
wrote:

Helmut - you are ignoring the role of Firstness, or chance, within the inanimate and animate world.

Chance, spontaneity are vital actions enabling adaptive and evolutionary capacities - and these two actions are obviously not found only within the human realm.  But also within the 'inanimate' and 'animate'.

I'd say that abduction is the Mind process of Firstness - and found in all forms of existence.

Edwina

 

On Mon 14/12/20 1:29 PM , Helmut Raulien h.raul...@gmx.de sent:

List,
I have to ponder your posts, because up to now my idea has been, that in inanimate nature merely deduction/efficient causation occurs, in animate nature (organisms) also induction/final causation, and in neuro-nature (brain animals) also abduction/example causation. To suggest that a molecule does abduction, would in my concept be illegitimate anthropocentrism. But all that is just my ideas, you know I have some of them, maybe all wrong. Best, Helmut
 
 
14. Dezember 2020 um 18:23 Uhr
 "Jerry LR Chandler"
wrote:
List: 
 
I am uncertain as to the semantic, syntactical, formal and CSP textual sources of meanings of the term “ampliative” as used in these two sentences.
 
On Dec 14, 2020, at 8:46 AM, g...@gnusystems.ca wrote:
 
In logical terms, the key is that excluded middle is a principle only of  deductive  reasoning, not of  ampliative reasoning, which always comes first in any   inquiry;
Jon had written:
"That is why it is ampliative rather than merely explicative, with the tradeoff that its inferences are merely plausible rather than certain."
 
 
 Note that ampliative reasoning can be used to infer the necessary connections between atoms and molecules as many to one mappings from parts to the wholes. That is, for a collection of atoms to become a single molecule, it is necessary that new relations must be specified that show the differences between the individuals and the collective, the emergent whole with a new name that specifies its uniqueness. 
 
In other words, what is being “ampliated" in this usage of the term “ampliative”? 
 
(I vaguely recall reading a CSP passage that used the term but can not locate it now.)
 
Secondly, why is the form of term such a radical departure from the common form of terminology of logics, such as abductive, adductive, deductive, inductive, productive, retroductive, (synductive), and transductive.  
 
(The term “synductive” was coined in my 2008 paper to enumerate the logic of forming a whole from atomic parts by matching all  parts to another to form the molecular network, that is, the pattern of relations that quantifies the relationships between the qualisigns and the legisigns of sin-signs.)
 
Cheers
Jerry 
 

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