Jon, List,

All the commentary, quotations, and citations below by both of us are 
irrelevant to mathematical practice from ancient times to the present.  
Following is a definitive statement of mathematical practice from Euclid to the 
present:

In mathematics,  the distinction between axioms, postulates, and theorems is 
stated by metalanguage. That is a convenience for classifying, citing, and 
finding them.  But during any proof or reasoning of any kind, all relevant 
statements are placed in a single common area (paper, blackboard, whiteboard, 
computer storage, or phemic sheet).

The metalanguage that distinguishes axioms, postulates, and theorems is useful 
information for finding and citing the sources in a published proof.   But 
during a proof, the axioms, postulates, and previously proved theorems are 
copied into the current workspace (or phemic sheet).  They are used in exactly 
the same way, independent of their source or what they may be called.

This is not a debatable opinion.  It is a fact that can be verified by looking 
at any proof in any well-edited textbook of any branch of mathematics from the 
ancient past to the latest and greatest.

John

PS:  I majored in mathematics and related topics (logic and physics) at MIT and 
Harvard.  I later taught, lectured, and published books and articles on 
mathematics, logic, computer science, and computational linguistics.  The above 
facts are indisputable.   Peirce knew them very well.  He would not make a 
careless mistake about them.

----------------------------------------
From: "Jon Alan Schmidt" <[email protected]>
Sent: 3/23/24 10:51 PM

John, List:

JFS: I am happy to say that I completely agree with Jon's note below. However, 
the following passage from another note is misleading about Peirce, Euclid, and 
mathematical practice from ancient times to the present.

The quoted passage is from my same note below.

JFS: In mathematical texts, it's common to say "Given A1, A2, A3..., it follows 
THAT T1, T2, T3...  where the A's are axioms, and the T's are theorems that 
follow from the axioms. Note the word 'that'. It is a sign of METALANGUAGE, 
between two clauses of a sentence. It is not a sign of implication. The word 
'follows' or more precisely 'my be proved from' indicate the steps of a proof.

"Given A, it follows that T" is logically equivalent to "if A, then T," which 
is logically equivalent to "A implies T." A is the premiss or antecedent (e.g., 
postulates), and T is the conclusion or consequent (e.g., theorems). There is 
no need for metalanguage to express this in EGs since it is represented by a 
scroll or nested cuts or a ring-shaped shaded area--including a sheet with a 
red line drawn just inside its edges (or a shaded margin).

JFS: As for the notations in R514 and L376, Peirce made another distinction: 
postulates are propositions on which the utterer and the interpreter agree. The 
choice of postulates is the result of an AGREEMENT between the utterer and the 
interpreter. The results inside the red line are the result of an INVESTIGATION 
that may be far more complex than an mathematical proof.

In R 514, Peirce only states that "in the margin outside the red line, whatever 
is scribed is merely asserted to be possible. Thus, if the subject were 
geometry, I could write in that margin the postulates, and any pertinent 
problems stated in the form of postulates." He does not say anything about "an 
agreement between the utterer and the interpreter," nor about the "results 
inside the red line" before the text breaks off in mid-sentence.

In R L376, Peirce does not say anything about "the red line" nor "an 
investigation," complex or otherwise. The "agreement between the utterer and 
the interpreter" is on the subject of the graphs scribed on each piece of 
paper, which represents a portion of the overall universe of discourse that "is 
before the common attention" of both parties at one time or another. He only 
discusses postulates in the paragraph right before the section on "The Phemic 
Sheet," and only for the purpose of explaining why "any valid deductive 
conclusion" is not "instantaneously evident upon an examination of the 
premisses." Here is what he says.

CSP: My second reason is found in the peculiar character of mathematical 
postulates. These pronounce that certain things are possible. But these 
possibles are not, of course, single things, for a single thing must be more or 
less than possible: they embrace whole infinite series of infinite series of 
objects in each postulate; and it is upon the statement of the possibility of 
one single one of those objects or single one for each set of certain others, 
that some essential part of the conclusion is founded. How many demonstrations, 
for example, and very simple ones too, as mathematics goes, depend, each of 
them, upon the possibility of a single straight line; while this possibility is 
only asserted in the postulate that there is, or may be, a straight line 
through any two points of space. In that statement the possibility of every 
single straight line in space is asserted, including the single one whose 
existence is pertinent and concerning which a similar postulate directly or 
mediately asserts something which is an essential ingredient of the conclusion.

Consistent with R 514, postulates "pronounce that certain things are possible." 
Moreover, the only kind of investigation that Peirce discusses here is a 
mathematical demonstration.

JFS: The complexity of the investigation is the reason why Delta graphs are a 
completely new branch of EGs.

Again, Peirce's only stated reason for needing "to add a Delta part" to EGs is 
"in order to deal with modals"--not for metalanguage, and not for complex 
investigations.

Regards,

Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian
www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt

On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 4:46 PM John F Sowa <[email protected]> wrote:
Jerry, Jon, List,

JLRC:  If the critical concept that is under scrutiny here the issue of “graphs 
of graphs” , how is this related to the arithmetical notion of division?

I agree with Jon's explanation below that Peirce did not use the word 
"division" to mean the numerical operation of dividing two numbers.  He was 
talking about dividing different parts of a text.

As for the phrase "graph of graphs", that excerpt occurred in the introductory 
paragraphs of Lecture V of Peirce's Lowell lectures of 1903.   Immediately 
before that, he used the synonym "graphs about graphs''.  Since the word 
'metalanguage' had not yet been introduced in English, the phrase "graphs about 
graphs" is his best and clearest term.  It he had used his Greek, he might have 
coined the word 'metagraph'.

I am happy to say that I completely agree with Jon's note below.  However, the 
following passage from another note is misleading about Peirce, Euclid, and 
mathematical practice from ancient times to the present.

JAS:  The "red pencil" notation (1909) is entirely different from this--a red 
line is drawn just inside the physical edge of the sheet, and postulates are 
written in the resulting margin. These are not propositions about the 
propositions written inside the red line (metalanguage), they are premisses 
(antecedent) from which the propositions written inside the red line follow 
necessarily as deductive conclusions (consequent). For example, if the EGs for 
Euclid's five postulates are scribed in the margin, then they can be iterated 
to the interior, where the EGs for all the theorems of Euclidean geometry can 
be derived from them in accordance with the usual permissions.

It's true that postulates are iterated (or copied) during the process of 
proving a theorem.  But it's also possible to iterate a statement from a 
that-clause of metalanguage to a collection of statements that are being 
discussed in other ways.

In mathematical texts, it's common to say "Given A1, A2, A3..., it follows THAT 
T1, T2, T3...  where the A's are axioms, and the T's are theorems that follow 
from the axioms.

Note the word 'that'.  It is a sign of METALANGUAGE, between two clauses of a 
sentence.   It is not a sign of implication.  The word 'follows' or more 
precisely 'my be proved from' indicate the steps of a proof.

As for the notations in R514 and L376, Peirce made another distinction:  
postulates are propositions on which the utterer and the interpreter agree. The 
choice of postulates is the result of an AGREEMENT between the utterer and the 
interpreter.  The results inside the red line are the result of an 
INVESTIGATION  that may be far more complex than an mathematical proof.  The 
complexity of the investigation is the reason why Delta graphs are a completely 
new branch of EGs.

In summary, metalanguage is the "secrete sauce" that makes Gamma graphs a third 
branch.  But investigation makes Delta graphs the fourth branch.   That 
difference is very important.

John
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