(I am resending this to the LIST since my REPLY button seems to have sent the message only to Auke´s private mail box)
Dear Auke, Thanks for your questions and comments. I am happy this case study called your attention. My answers bellow: I concentrate on the yellow range 13, 16 and 18 and 17 on the row below. Questions 1. Why did you choose for ‘scare’ as the effect of the whistle? VR: I could have said "alertness" instead of scare. It is hard to find in the folk psychology appropriate terms to describe semeiotic effects. Notice that the yellow sequence you are talking about is not dealing with the familiar whistles (which are replicas of legisigns), but with an unexpected and strident sound not yet interpreted as a whistle (sinsigns). My point is that is not a case that a referee uses a strident sound or traffic lights use red color to call our attention. These qualities have an atavic meaning (expressed in my periodic table by the grounding classes, or the Fisher information collected by collateral experience) and been selected by evolution because they were linked to dramatic experiences in the past of our species. That´s why they are metaphores: at the botton, the strident sound puts us in a state of alert because they are connected to sounds of suffering and of predators. When we hear them, our reptilic brain reacts putting us in a state of alert. 2. Are we dealing with a qualified occurrence of the aspect ‘percussive’ Cf. p 162 in the Welby correspondence? (The Hardwick edition)? VR: Close to it. Actually, the percussive aspect would be the orange sequence 10, 11 and 12, which are not by case involved in the yellow sequence you pointed out. If you go again to classes 16-18, chose to open one of them and then click on the "see more" after the examples. You will be directed to a specific page describing in details the class you have chosen. Please see my Solenoid of Semeiosis scheme which describes the aspects involved in each of the classes of signs. [the following depends on this kind of correspondences between your organization and the Welby classification.] 3. Box 17 states ‘jumping away’. Do you mean that there is actually a lot of scared jumping away? This makes interpretation a very cumbersome process., VR: Again, this might be related to language problems. What I wanted to stress is that there is a energetic dynamic effect which can, in some cases, produce a jumping away from the source (imagine you are crossing a street and suddenly hear a strident sound very near you. I would certainly jump away!) Cf. If I walk on the street involved in deep thinking and close by a whistle is blown, it may have the effect you describe. But if I sit in the stadium eager for the moment the whistle is blown, the effect is not scare, but eagerness for what is going to happen. VR: Certainly, but in the first case you hear an unexpected strident sound; in the second a familiar whistle coming from a referee. The first is a sinsign, the second is a replica. 4. Shouldn’t you make a scheme for each role separately? The Sheet of assertion may abstract from roles, but in actual cases of interpretation the state of the Sheet of description (Andre De Tienne) and the state of the Semiotic Sheets are only general up to the level of the small classification. For instance in the Welby classification accumulated experience is coming into play. VR: If you go to the "see more" page after each class, you will see the 1903 three correlates classification and the post-1905 10 aspects classification separarated BUT RELATED. Actually, this was possible only because I found out that there are 11 and not 10 aspects. Here is the page for the yellow number 16: http://www.minutesemeiotic.org/sin16.php In sum: what is the point of bringing in all sign classes in one example? VR: My point is that semeiosis is a continuum and each class of sign both envolves and is envolved in others. That´s fundamental in both my periodic table and solenoid of semeiosis. I tried to defend this in a tutorial video about my system: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=i5pF9nDb7iE&vq=medium a. I can imagine that you need all aspects of the small classification, since that part counts for any process of interpretation, but as soon as you add to that the wider range of relations developed in the Welby classification, I expect that you must make a choice of one out of all three aspects pertaining to the added relations. That is how experience plays its modifying role. b. More specific: Why do you deal with this matter in terms of sign classes and not in terms of sign aspects? To use a metaphor, suppose a tree grows by digesting wood. A process of interpretation is like the cambium of a tree at work, the classes are like the wood produced. VR: Actually, I see the classes of my periodic table as snapshot of the ongoing process of semeiosis. It helps us classify and apply phenomena, but to understand the whole movement, you have to go to the solenoid of semeiosis, where the holomovement (to quote David Bohm) is actually happening. Thanks again, Auke! Best, Vinicius Kind regards, Auke van Breemen Van:C S Peirce discussion list [mailto:PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU] Namens Vinícius Romanini Verzonden: vrijdag 14 oktober 2011 15:24 Aan: PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU Onderwerp: [peirce-l] How to start a soccer match using 66 classes of signs Dear listers, For those who enjoy soccer and semeiotic. Brazil will host the 2014 World Cup and the initial game will be in São Paulo, where I live, and hopely at the new soccer stadium being built by the team I cheer for, Corinthians. I will certainly be there for the first kick and invite all of you to come too. For now, I took a holliday this week to muse how the starting moment of this first match could be described semiotically. To find out the result go to the link bellow and click on each of the 66 little squares of my Periodic Table of Classes of Signs. After a brief description of each class of sign, I give examples applying the classes to analyse the semeiosis involved in the whistle of the referee which starts the tournament. The link: http://www.minutesemeiotic.org/home.php?id=1 All the best, Vinicius Romanini, Ph.D. Professor of Communication Studies School of Communications and Arts University of Sao Paulo, Brazil www.minutesemeiotic.org www.semeiosis.com.br --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the PEIRCE-L listserv. To remove yourself from this list, send a message to lists...@listserv.iupui.edu with the line "SIGNOFF PEIRCE-L" in the body of the message. To post a message to the list, send it to PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the PEIRCE-L listserv. To remove yourself from this list, send a message to lists...@listserv.iupui.edu with the line "SIGNOFF PEIRCE-L" in the body of the message. To post a message to the list, send it to PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the PEIRCE-L listserv. To remove yourself from this list, send a message to lists...@listserv.iupui.edu with the line "SIGNOFF PEIRCE-L" in the body of the message. To post a message to the list, send it to PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
