On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Carrol Cox <cb...@ilstu.edu> wrote: > In very concrete terms Sanders is a serious obstacle to any attempts to > build mass movements of opposition to the current policies of Austerity & > Imperialism. He is doing much more damage to leftist politics than Trump in > the white house could do. >
Repeating fallacious arguments over and over again does not make them any better. I notice that you did not have the courtesy to answer any of the very specific responses I had to Michael's blog. And if you say "Sanders" and "mass movement" in the same sentence again, I am going to SCREAM! -raghu. In 1988 I was on Jackson's delegate slate in this congressional district; > Jan & I were members of LRS, and that was why Jackson's last speech of the > primary campaign was delivered here in Bloomington/Normal Illionois: LRS > controleed Jackson's speaking schedule. Jackson was far to the left of > Sanders (at least verbally), but LRS did not gain a single member from that > campaign; in fct, to this day I believe the illusion (or delusory) hopes > generated by that campaign, along with the exhaustion created by electoral > activity, was the primary cause of the collapse of LRS a year or so later. > For 80 years the idiotic hope of pushing the DP left has been the death of > all mass political action, beginning with the CPUSA and the CIO. > > Carrol > > -----Original Message----- > From: pen-l-boun...@lists.csuchico.edu [mailto: > pen-l-boun...@lists.csuchico.edu] On Behalf Of raghu > Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 3:25 PM > To: Progressive Economics > Subject: Re: [Pen-l] New Blog Post: Bernie Sanders' "Political Revolution" > > On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 8:48 AM, Michael Yates <mikedjya...@msn.com> > wrote: > > > Some say that those of us who don't actively support the > Sanders' campaign are "ultra-leftists." I disagree. And for > the record, I am not and have never been a Trotskyist! Though > I have friends who are and were. > > cheapmotelsandahotplate.org/2016/02/29/bernie-sanders-political-revolution/ > > > > > > Hi Michael, > > I usually much enjoy and agree with your blogs, but this time, I am > afraid, I find you arguing with strawmen far too much. > > > > > Is the Sanders’ phenomenon a radical movement? If not, will it > soon give rise to one? There are reasons to be skeptical. > > > > Fair enough, but you are setting the bar ridiculously high here. If any > political activity must constitute a radical movement in order for it to be > worthwhile at all, this is an argument for paralysis basically. > > > I think you need to argue against a more reasonable bar: is the Sanders > campaign meaningfully advancing the prospects for a radical movement? The > answer to that surely has to be Yes. > > > > > > Second, all campaigns are now driven by television and social > media, both of which devote little time to the serious analysis that might > educate us. They feed the public sound bites, over and over, ad nauseam. > > > This is way too cynical. What you say above is true of cable and network > TV, but social media?? And I am not even sure about the relevance to the > Sanders campaign. > > > > > > However, might it not be just as reasonable to argue that > dedicated activists within the working class, through years of hard and > tireless efforts had already built militant, albeit not radical > organizations, and it has been these that have energized the Sanders’ > campaign and not the other way around? > > > > Does it matter which is cause, and which effect? And does it have to be > either/or? Surely the more reasonable guess would be that there is a little > bit of both? > > > > > > won’t the new recruits be spending their time for the foreseeable > future trying to win converts to the election cause? When exactly will the > movement building begin? > > > > Don't you think you have a very narrow conception of what constitutes > "movement building"? Also, aren't you begging the question here by making > assertions without evidence about everyone "spending their time for the > foreseeable future" on the "election cause" which is taken to be > intrinsically inimical to this thing called "movement building"? > > > > > > Why is anything different this time around? Yes, Sanders is a > better choice for president than Hillary Clinton. > > > > Didn't you just answer your own question there? > > > > > But he is running as a Democrat, as part of a party that is rotten > from top to bottom. > > > > True, but why is this an indictment of Sanders? > > The DP happens to the gateway to the left 50% of the US public. The > gatekeepers are corrupt, but they are not omnipotent. Indeed one of the > great services that the Sanders campaign has performed is to bring a > spotlight to just how corrupt the DP elites are. > > > > > > If Sanders and those who support him were serious about building a > radical movement, they would use his campaign to engage in a parallel > crusade of critical education. [...] If Sanders and his “Sandernistas” > wanted a “political revolution,” they would use his campaign to begin the > long, arduous process of radical education. There would be teach-ins and > public meetings in towns large and small. No political event, no protest, > no rally would be fail to have an educational component. Sanders’ talking > points could be used to deepen understanding, by asking questions and > pushing the discussions toward fundamental causes. And connections between > inequality and a host of other problems, including the environmental > catastrophes that are raining down upon us and threaten the viability of > human life itself, could be made. > > > Funny you should say that, because that's exactly what Sanders and many of > his supporters claim to be doing. Maybe your real complaint is that they > are not doing it very well. Fair enough, but that's very different from > saying that the Sanders campaign should be ignored or opposed. > > > -raghu. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pen-l mailing list > pen-l@lists.csuchico.edu > https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l >
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