I agree that welfare state capitalism was not on the agenda in the ex-bloc states, but that does not mean that state ownership that is basically welfdarist is socialist any more than social democracy is socialist. In a message dated Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:33:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: << Justin: LP: Unfortunately social democratic capitalism was not on the agenda in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, . . .