Sabri Oncu writes:
----------------------
> That is why I love American society -- both Michael Perelman and
> rapacious investment bankers can find their place and lead their lives
> primarily as they see fit.
>
> David Shemano
>
This is probably the most absurd claim I have heard on this list. I don't
want
to speak for Michael (although I doubt that he would claim that he leads his
life as he sees fit) but for most of those hundreds of Americans with whom I
have worked together over the past five years the statement that they lead
their lives as they see fit is simply false. And I am talking about white
collar and no-collar workers who belong to various strata of the middle
class
who presumably are doing better than the majority.
As nearly all of my coworkers would say, they do what they for one simple
reason: The pay check!
Why do you think one important ingredient of the American dream in these
days
is to make a lot of money and retire as quickly as possible?
Alienation at its peak!
------------------------------
This is so predictable, it's funny.
Here is exactly what Michael said: "Second, it is not that I believe that
people want nothing in return -- rather it is that I would like to live in
world in which I do not have to
expect some direct compensation. I don't have to take time to meet with
my students. I could walk though my job with maybe 15 hours per week --
if I wanted to. Most teachers are dedicated to what they are doing and so
put in more than is necessary."
If we read Michael literally, which I did for fun, his sentence doesn't hold
together as criticism. The first sentence says he would like to live in a
world where "I" (Michael Perelman) don't have to expect direct compensation.
The next two sentences say that, in fact, that is exactly how does live his
life. Therefore, according to Michael's sentence, he is perfectly capable
of living, as an ethical manner, as he chooses in the United States and,
therefore, should view the United States as satisfying his requirements of
the good society.
Now, I know, or I should I say I assume, that that is not what Michael
meant. To be argumentative, tendentious, and presumptuous, what Michael
meant, and what you mean, and what all the other Lefties on the list mean,
is that they want to live in a society where everybody shares their
ethics -- there are no rapacious investment bankers out to squeeze every
dime out of the deal. Their is simply no room in utopia for rapacious
investment bankers.
Finally, I never said, and very specifically did not say, that every person
living in the United States leads lives as they see fit. As you point out,
that would be an absurd claim. However, what makes the United States a
"good society" in my eyes is that there is room for Michael Perelman and
rapacious investment bankers to lead their lives generally as they see fit.
Yes, there are people who are oppressed, incompetent, unlucky, stupid,
suffer clinical depression, etc. and do not lead the lives they wish. But,
in my view, that will be true of all societies, however constituted, which
is why I believe you (generally speaking) are utopians and I am not. The
question for me is empirical -- what type of social arrangements, in actual
practice, permit the most people to lead lives as they see fit.
David Shemano
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