Julio Huato: > But my question was, why should we think that poor
> > countries -- as they grow -- won't develop the will and mechanisms to use
> > these additional opportunities and resources in a way that limits
> > environmental damage?
Because it isn't happening. The most industrialized of the poor
countries (S.Korea, Mexico, Brazil, Indonesia) are environmental
disasters. I've seen it first hand. There is a strong incentive to dump
the costs of industrialization onto the environment. They--as some rich
countries are doing-- might try and clean up their act but the
environmental damage is in many cases irreversible (e.g. Lake Erie and
Ontario). The incentive to
pollute is built into capitalism. Even many neoclassical economists
would agree.
But,
> > important as it is, the relative role of imperialist exploitation in the
> > overall exploitation of workers in the Third World tends to decline as
> > capitalist production proper expands.
Whoa, a real Kautskyite. But no, the rate of exploitation rises as
productivity (surplus value)
increases. For example, auto workers in Mexico work at close to the same
level of productivity as Canadians or Americans but are only paid a
fraction. They are more exploited and most of that surplus value ends up
in the rich countries. A Marxist economist named Geoffrey Kay once
suggested that the problem with Africa was that it wasn't "exploited
enough" i.e. there was too little investment and productivity was too
low. You seem to agree with him.
> >
> > If you imply that, in the long run, capitalist growth is a necessary
> > condition for the living and working conditions of workers in the Third
> > World to improve, I agree. Of course, things would change if a union of
> > rich socialist countries showed up to assist the poor ones.
> > __
If capitalism--in your view-- is so good for the working class, why
bother with socialism? Donald
Sassoon in his 100 Years of Socialism, makes the argument that socialism
is completely dependent on capitalism (specifically capitalist growth)
so all that's left for socialists to do is redistribute the goodies of
capitalism. Do you agree? Socialism,for me, is about more than doing
capitalism better than the capitalists.
Sam Pawlett
