see <<< >>> below ----- Original Message ----- From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Is this Stalingrad?
Chris, you talked about Stalingrad in Iraq a little more than a year ago and that scenario didn't work out. Why was that prediction/understanding wrong? The current "Stalingrad" seems more plausible, but your overuse of the term pushes me to be skeptical and to wonder it maybe things are better for the US and its junior partner than it seems. Further, we should remember that the "coalition" forces in Iraq are by and large working class. They're being exploited just like (or more than) factory workers, though at this point there's no surplus-value directly resulting from their labors. There must be some way to oppose the war while supporting the troops. <<< >>> You mean, Jim, like saying, lets bring our boys home, and stop them getting killed or sexually abusing their captives, because it's neither safe nor glorious? - and if some peace keeping forces are necessary under the control of the UN, perhaps it might be cheaper if they come from muslim countries? Thanks for the reminder of the prophetic thread. It was on March 23 2003 I see from our handy archives that I wrote an item with the thread title Baghdad-Stalingrad I ended "Since this morning, I put the chances of US defeat up from 10% to 20%" As of today, who would put the chances of US victory as high as 80%??? Would you bet on it? It's less than evens. Events have not only passed the tipping point, collapse is a real possibility. At least they were able to resupply readily from the sea in the case of Vietnam. Is the simile really overused? There is a massively powerful army over-extended in territory that is hostile, with a people that has found a way to resist. Russia - Napoleon, Hitler. Iraq - Bush. Everything that is happening is consistent with the strategy of armed resistance attributed to the Iraqi security services in a document of January 2003. The defeat of a massive invading army does not happen overnight. Of course it can smash oppostion at first. Stalingrad occurred not in 1941 but in 1943. The analysis of the underlying contradictions from sources we could all read a year ago was broadly correct. Thank you for the reminder. http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/pen-l/2003I/msg02442.html Regards Chris
