(Koppel will be a guest on the Daily Show this thursday.)
slate.com Battle of the Network Anchors Ted Koppel and Jon Stewart face off on the convention floor. By Dana Stevens Updated Friday, July 30, 2004, at 6:30 PM PT
Because of our predilection (scroll down to Wednesday's entry) for watching convention coverage on the always-perverse MSNBC network, Surfergirl did not catch the much discussed balloon mishap that had CNN inadvertently broadcasting the shouted obscenities of a producer immediately after John Kerry's speech. If only it were possible to monitor all the channels at once from a wall-size bank of television monitors, like a crazy millionaire in the movies! But, as has been noted over and over this week, a modern political convention is a place where unexpected things like Balloongate very rarely happen.
One exception was Ted Koppel's surprising encounter with The Daily Show's Jon Stewart on the Wednesday night edition of Nightline. Koppel was in Boston that night, covering … well, the coverage; the theme of the show was "the Democratic National Convention through the eyes of the beholders." I had tuned in mainly to watch what was billed as an "interview" with Ana Marie Cox, aka Wonkette, the D.C.-based satirical blogger hired this week by MTV to attract the nerdy blog-reading demographic. As it turned out, Wonkette's appearance on Nightline amounted to little more than a 20-second sound bite—something about her Web site claiming to be no more than the journalistic equivalent of candy, albeit a kind of candy that "takes a while to acquire a taste for." (Mmm, gimme some.)
But after the commercial break, something unforeseeable happened on Nightline: an anchorman showdown! What began as a casual media-on-the-media puff piece turned into a fascinating five-minute referendum on old and new ways of looking at the meaning and purpose of television news. In a one-on-one chat on the deserted convention floor after the day's festivities had ended, Koppel, in his low-key, dignified, What-Me-Worry way, got medieval on Stewart's ass.
full: http://slate.msn.com/id/2104473/#koppel
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NIGHTLINE TRANSCRIPT:
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) A lot of television viewers, more, quite frankly, than I'm comfortable with, get their news from the comedy channel on a program called "The Daily Show." Its host is Jon Stewart.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) You were telling me before, and it's a very interesting concept, I'd like to steal it.
JON STEWART
Please. Please, feel free.
JON STEWART
(Off Camera) But you would only, you would draw everyone's attention to it. You called this a product launch.
JON STEWART
Yes.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) This is like a product launch. What did you mean?
JON STEWART
It's not like a product launch.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) It is a product launch.
JON STEWART
It's a product launch.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Tell me about it.
JON STEWART
The product is John Kerry, now with lemon, and they're launching what they consider to be, look, they went through a primary where they, you know, everybody was Taxi-Tested Tough, and they went through it. They've come up with this candidate, John Kerry, who apparently was in Vietnam. I don't know if you heard that.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) I heard that.
JON STEWART
They mentioned it earlier.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) They mentioned it once or twice.
JON STEWART
And what they're doing is now sort of, in the way that any company would want to put its product in the best light, whether it be Toyota or Tylenol, or the Democratic party, which is well within their right, and probably what they should do. No one's going to bring him out there and go, and by the way, in the back, there's a huge dent. You know, they're going to want to show it at its finest.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) We used to come to, as we have both noted on separate occasions, I'm a lot older than you are, but back, you know, back 40 years ago, we would actually come to these events in the expectation that unexpected things were going to happen.
JON STEWART
But unexpected things used to happen in the world. They don't happen anymore.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Oh, sure they do.
JON STEWART
Very rarely. Very rarely is an event not parsed prior to when it happens. And when it does happen unexpectedly, it's only because the speculation was off cue.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) When there were only three of us, we were not as easy to manipulate, because you could only play A off against B off against C.
JON STEWART
That I agree with.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Right? Now you have got 200 of us. You don't like what Jon Stewart is doing, go to John Lovitz.
JON STEWART
But we are a separate, we are a peripheral, we're a sundae bar, and I don't think that, we're reactive, and not actual news. So I don't think, if you don't like Jon Stewart, then you'll have to go to another comedy program. Not another news program.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) You're refreshingly honest about that. And I appreciate that. But the reality if it is, and it's no joke anymore, the reality of it is that there are a lot people out there who do turn to you for ...
JON STEWART
Not for news.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Well, they, they turn ...
JON STEWART
For an interpretation. For a comedic interpretation.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) To be informed. They actually think that they're coming closer to the truth with your ...
JON STEWART
Now, that's a different thing. That's credibility. That's a different, that's a different animal.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Okay, that's what I want to you to try and get into a little bit. This, this notion of, for example, people who listen to Sean Hannity ...
JON STEWART
Yes.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Also are looking for ...
JON STEWART
Want a narrative.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) ... a narrative.
JON STEWART
Right.
COMMENTATOR
(Off Camera) Al Franken ...
JON STEWART
Gives a narrative.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Different group of people, different narrative. That's the slice, so what I'm trying to get to here is, what is going on that is different now with these literally, I don't think it's even hundreds anymore, there are maybe close to a thousand outlets here.
JON STEWART
It's that, the partisan mobilization has become a part of the media process. That they've realized that, this real estate that you possess, television, is the most valuable real estate known to rulers. If Alexander the Great had TV, believe me, he would have had his spin guys dealing, you know, Napoleon would have had people working. The key to leadership is to have that mouthpiece to the people, and that's what, and that's what this is. You guys are, this is a battle for the airwaves. And that's what we watch, and that's what's so, I think, dispiriting, to those at home, who believe that, I think, there's a sense here that you're not participating in that battle and there's a sense at home watching it of you're absolutely participating and complicit in that battle, in the sense of this.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Go a little further, go a little further on that.
JON STEWART
I'm a news anchor. Remember, this is bizarro world. And I say, the issue is healthcare. And insurance, and why 40 million American kids don't have insurance, 40 million Americans are uninsured. Is this health insurance program being debated in Congress good for the country? Let's debate it. I have with me Donna Brazile and Bay Buchanan. Let's go. Donna. I think the Democrats really have it right here. I think that this is a, a pain to the insurance companies and to the drug companies and I think it's wrong for America. Bay. Oh, no, no, no. That's incorrect. What it is is, and then she throws out her figures from the Heritage Foundation and she throws her figures from the Brookings Institute, and the anchor, who should be the arbiter of the truth says, thank you both very much. That was really interesting. No, it wasn't. That was Coke and Pepsi talking about beverage truth. And that, that game is what has, I think, caused people to go, I'm not watching this.
JON STEWART
(Off Camera) All right, so you have found an answer, through humor ...
JON STEWART
No. It's not an answer.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) ... no, well, a truth, an answer in the sense that through humor ...
JON STEWART
I found an outlet. I found a catharsis, a sneeze, if you will.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) But it's not just a catharsis for you, it's a catharsis for your viewers. Those who watch say at least when I'm watching Jon, he can use humor to say, BS. You know, that's a crock.
JON STEWART
But that's always been the case. Satire has always been.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Okay, but I can't, I can't do that.
JON STEWART
No. But you can say that's BS. You don't need humor to do it, because you have, what I wish I had. Which is credibility, and gravitas, this is interesting stuff. And it's all part of the discussion, and I think it's a good discussion to have, but I also think that it's important to take a more critical look, you know? Don't you think?
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) No.
JON STEWART
And certainly not from me.
TED KOPPEL
Not from you.
JON STEWART
I'm, I know my role. I am the dancing monkey.
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) I've had enough of you. You're done. You're finished. Thank you, Jon.
JON STEWART
You're very welcome.
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