I had written:
> In the end, I think we should see "true" economic growth as being the
> growth of technical and scientific knowledge, which allows us to
> produce more with our labor.

Eugene Coyle wrote:
> Yes, it "allows" us to produce more, but we (i.e. the US economy) won't
> produce more unless somebody buys more.

right. I didn't say otherwise.

>...  For the last several
> decades, more borrowing has replaced more income as the basis of offsetting
> productivity gains. [i.e., offsetting their negative effect on employment]

> Credit cards, student loans, easier mortgages, home
> improvement loans, six year car loans, etc. have been a desperate and now
> failed attempt to keep the buying growing.

This sounds like it was a conscious effort by a scheming elite. But I
agree that without credit growth, the US economy would have been much
more stagnant than it was (all else constant).

> Productivity gains kill jobs.

all else constant.

> So growth needs, and is about, consumption.  Growing consumption.  But
> growing consumption is destroying the environment in multiple dimensions.

Growing consumption doesn't _have to_ destroy the environment. The
development of "green" products (e.g., the Prius) also involves new
consumption while reducing environmental destruction marginally. I
would agree that there are strong vested interests in keeping consumer
demand rising _without_ fixing the negative environmental impact.

>  Fish are disappearing, but the "democratization of sushi" expands.

??democratization of susi?? what's that?

BTW, I never said that fish weren't being over-fished.

> We can prattle all we want about the Genuine Progress Indicator (not that it
> isn't a useful discussion tool) but the idea of dematerializing consumption
> as a way to save both the economy and the environment at the same time is
> utopian.  Utopian as in unattainable.

technically unattainable? politically unattainable??

> So, what is it?  More fiscal and monetary policy to power the treadmill to
> the end of the world, or offsetting gains in productivity (whether from
> "technical and scientific knowledge" or learning by doing) with shorter
> working time?

isn't shorter working time an aspect of "dematerializing consumption"?
I thought you said that was unattainable.

It is a good idea to cut working time/year. Getting there would likely
involve a big struggle. If people in China are willing to work 60
hours/week, that makes it hard to cut the work-week here in the US.

gotta go.
-- 
Jim Devine /  "Nobody told me there'd be days like these / Strange
days indeed -- most peculiar, mama." -- JL.
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