On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Carrol Cox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Michael Perelman wrote: >> >> I thought that this was important. I wonder why it has not elicited any > > That there is and has been strong public support for climate control > and other ecological issues is, I'm afraid, also evidence that these > issues cannot, themselves, be the basis of any mass movement. That > support is, as Gar says, weak tea.
I specifically said that that it was NOT weak tea, because the support was wrong rather than weak.. Please don't misrepresent me. > >It is evidence that, if a strong mass > movement of the left should arise around other issues (a Movement of > Movement), such a left _would_ incorporate ecological demands, and those > wouldin turn strengthen such a left. Hmm. Don't really disagree. I never thought a left could be built soley or primarily around ecological issues, but I always thought ecological issues had a critical contribution to make. > > But the abstract future of the earth as a habitable planet simply is not > the sort of thing mass mvements are built of. Well no. However thing things is things like solar and trains are NOT "the abstract future". > > It is nearly impossible to formulate the demands abut which such > amovement could organize itself. Remember, mass movements need a > negative at their center. > > Carrol You've said this before, but historically it does not not seem to be true. That is actual revolutions seemed to be about very concrete positive demands like land to the landless. I believe "all power to the Soviets" was a demand in a revolution you have a certain amount of respect for. Your point about the abstract future is a valid one and may explain a lot. "Cap-and-trade", aside from being awful policy is specifically about the "future of the earth". That is the main justification used to sell it to the public. In fact, it is a sort of negative demand - "Stop Global Warming". Whereas the things that have strong public support - trains, solar, and so on have obvious concrete benefits - jobs, a way to get around, better means of obtaining warm toes and cold beer. I don't think you can build "the" mass movement around it (and I do think we need "the" mass movement, a movement of movements as you said) but I think we can build a mass movement around it., > _______________________________________________ > pen-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l > _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
