From: Jim Devine
that's not what I was looking for. Rather, it's what Louis posted, the idea that having their own houses undermines working-class solidarity (the way that small-holdings can undermine peasant solidarity). ^^^^ CB: The logic makes sense to me. I guess earlier on this thread or a related one, Michael pointed to similar logic. I'm wondering where Engels said it. In _The Housing Question_ ? It would be opposing a reform to the extent he was discussing workers owning their own homes under capitalism. ^^^^ Anyway, just because the SWP [the Sectarian Workers' Party] endorsed Engels' view on the question does not mean that it's wrong. ^^^^^ CB: Agree. Their logic seems good. ^^^^^^^ It's not just the one's relation to the means of production that influences one's consciousness. It's also one's relationship to the "means of consumption" (houses, cars, etc.) I remember some UAW leader back in the early 1970s moaning over the fact his members were encouraged to be individualistic and not full supporters of the UAW leadership by their individual ownership of cars (and commuting to work in individual cars on the freeway). Even though he didn't seem to consider that the UAW leadership's own actions may have contributed to this disconnect, it does make a certain amount of sense. ^^^^^ CB: I have mentioned this notion of cars having an individualizing impact on consciousness as opposed to other forms of mass transport like buses and subways. I don't emphasize it (smiles). But I agree with u on ur general point about other aspects besides relationship to the means of production influencing workers' consciousness. For example, residential segregation by race is a main divider of the working class in the US. In fact that one can be related to homeownership maybe if we deliberate on it. ^^^^^ Of course, in the long haul, one's relationship to the means of production determines what consumer goods you can buy. So in the end, it's the former that counts. ^^^^^^^ CB: Yes, relationship to means of production and mean of consumption. The mass means of consumption have to be affordable to the mass of the population for the capitalists to realize their profits. So, many workers have to be able to buy cars and other mass consumer goods for profits to be made. Of course, housing can be consumed by renting. Doesn't have to be ownership. This is an interesting thread. The notion that maybe the left should oppose home ownership is interesting. Is it true that most people do not pay off their mortgages before dying ? (!) _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
