And Vatican 2 was written by a bunch of commies.
That is still a current view. In fact, when a close friend went to Detroit a month ago for a Vatican 2 gathering, fighting for a more democratic Catholic Church, the group was vilified as heretical by the Archbishop: http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/C4/20110612/NEWS05/110612013/Archbishop-blasts-Ferndale-priest-s-leading-liberal-Mass She is in the picture in the newspaper, prodding her to write a strong letter to the Detroit Hissunah Oh, and July 4th, that must also be a Commie thing to the archenem,er, bishop. . .have you read the declaration? Best, Brian Marxist, and Liberation theologist -----Original Message----- From: Jim Devine <[email protected]> To: Pen-l <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2011 8:10 pm Subject: [Pen-l] new frontiers in science! www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-galileo-was-wrong-20110704,0,1142889.story hicagotribune.com Some Catholics seek to counter Galileo plinter group says the Earth, not the sun, is, indeed, at the center f the universe By Manya A. Brachear, Tribune reporter uly 4, 2011 Some people believe the world literally revolves around them. It's a elief born not of selfishness but faith. A small group of conservative Roman Catholics is pointing to a dozen iblical verses and the Church's original teaching as proof that the arth is the center of the universe, the view that prompted Galileo alilei's clash with the Church four centuries ago. The relatively obscure movement has gained a following among a few hicago-area Catholics who find comfort in knowing there are still taunch defenders of original Church doctrine. "This subject is, as far as I can see, an embarrassment to the modern hurch because the world more or less looks upon geocentrism or omeone who believes it in the same boat as the flat Earth," said ames Phillips, of Cicero. Phillips attends Our Lady Immaculate Catholic Church in Oak Park, a arish run by the Society of St. Pius X, a group that rejects most of he modernizing reforms the Vatican II council made from 1962 to 1965. But by challenging modern science, the proponents of a geocentric niverse are challenging the very church they seek to serve and rotect. "I have no idea who these people are. Are they sincere, or is this a lever bit of theater?" said Brother Guy Consolmagno, the curator of eteorites and spokesman for the Vatican Observatory. Indeed, those promoting geocentrism argue that heliocentrism, or the enturies-old consensus among scientists that the Earth revolves round the sun, is nothing more than a conspiracy theory to squelch he church's influence. "Heliocentrism becomes 'dangerous' if it is being propped up as the rue system when, in fact, it is a false system," said Robert ungenis, leader of a budding movement to get scientists to econsider. "False information leads to false ideas, and false ideas ead to illicit and immoral actions — thus the state of the world oday. … Prior to Galileo, the church was in full command of the orld; and governments and academia were subservient to her." Sungenis is no lone Don Quixote, as illustrated by the hundreds of uriosity seekers, skeptics and supporters at a conference last fall itled "Galileo Was Wrong. The Church Was Right" just off the niversity of Notre Dame campus in South Bend, Ind. Astrophysicists at Notre Dame didn't appreciate the group hitching its agon to the prestige of America's flagship Catholic university and esurrecting a concept that's extinct for a reason. "It's an idea whose time has come and gone," astrophysics professor eter Garnavich said. "There are some people who want to move the orld back to the 1950s when it seemed like a better time. These are eople who want to move the world back to the 1250s. I don't really nderstand it at all." Garnavich said the theory of geocentrism violates what he believes hould be a strict separation of church and science. One answers why, he other answers how, and never the twain should meet, he said. But supporters of the theory contend that there is scientific evidence o support geocentrism, just as there is evidence to support the ix-day story of creation in Genesis. There is proof in Scripture that the Earth is the center of the niverse, Sungenis said. Among many verses, he cites Joshua 10:12-14 s definitive proof: "And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, hile the nation took vengeance on its foe. … The sun halted in the iddle of the sky; not for a whole day did it resume its swift ourse." But Ken Ham, founder of the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Ky., said he Bible is silent on geocentrism. "There's a big difference between looking at the origin of the lanets, the solar system and the universe and looking at presently ow they move and how they are interrelated," Ham said. "The Bible is either geocentric or heliocentric. It does not give any specific nformation about the structure of the solar system." Just as Ham challenges the foundation of natural history museums, ungenis challenges planetariums, most notably the Vatican bservatory. Consolmagno said the very premise of going after Galileo illustrates he theory's lack of scientific credibility. "Of course, we understand the universe in a far more nuanced way than alileo did 400 years ago," he said. "And I would hope that the next 00 years would see just as much development." But Sungenis said the renewed interest in geocentrism is due, in part, o the efforts of Christians entering the scientific domain previously ominated by secularists. These Christian scientists, he said, showed odern science is without scientific foundation or even good evidence. The issue has even sparked a debate between Art and Pat Jones, of yons. Pat Jones, a conservative Catholic who often attends Mass at hillips' parish, said heliocentrism is part of a conspiracy. "Because of our fallen nature in Christian terms, we take the line of east resistance — go with the flow," said Pat Jones. "But the means f grace have to be intact." Her husband, Art, a self-described skeptical Protestant, says he is till a "doubting Thomas" but wouldn't put it past the orthodox cience community to cook up a conspiracy. He accompanied his wife to he South Bend conference to learn more and "keep peace in the amily." Meanwhile, the theory has brought others like Phillips closer to God. "I dropped my practice of faith," Phillips said. "When I came back, it as a big wake-up call for me. … The world has its own dogmas." [email protected] opyright © 2011, Chicago Tribune - im Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own ay and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante. ______________________________________________ en-l mailing list [email protected] ttps://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
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